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 Post subject: Surley Karate Monkey
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:56 am 
MacRetro rider
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It seems to me fairly obvious: The so-called tyre clearance, extendable up to 14mm, is probably for chain tension adjustment when the frame is set up for single-speed/hub gears.





Unless I'm wrong . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Surley Karate Monkey
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:36 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Location: Lost in Translation
GeoffApps wrote:
It seems to me fairly obvious: The so-called tyre clearance, extendable up to 14mm, is probably for chain tension adjustment when the frame is set up for single-speed/hub gears.

It's about clearance problems between the tyre and front derailleur. All explained here:

http://www.surlybikes.com/spew12.html

I'm not completely convinced by the 29" thing either - it seems to require too many design compromises, especially in smaller frame sizes - but Surly are known for their practical, no-nonsense designs.

If I lived somewhere I could use one, this is the Surly I would buy:

http://www.surlybikes.com/pugsley.html


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:47 am 
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GeoffApps wrote:
You're right on the mark; it is a considerable simplification, that's why I italicised the word general.

Understood - writing in the wee small hours things don't always come out quite the way I intend. It just struck me as interesting that some of the more Cleland-like features of modern bikes came about through their refinement in a field that seems - on the face of it - almost the polar opposite of the Cleland philosophy. A kind of unlikely example of convergent evolution.


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 Post subject: Re: I also ride Moultons
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:56 am 
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GrahamJohnWallace wrote:
I've got a 1986 AM7, and a 1992 Pashley built APB.

I did wonder, when you were talking about frame triangulation. Of course one of the penalties of a spaceframe design is the labour cost involved in building it. My wife rides (infrequently) a Moulton Land Rover APB, but as much as I love the later designs, I'm more of a cloth cap Moultoneer:

http://images2.fotopic.net/?iid=y5yrsh& ... &nostamp=1

There are a few obvious parallels between Moultons and Clelands of course (and I'm not just thinking about the head tube length! :wink: )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:39 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 19
Location: Hyde, Cheshire
Quote:
I don't know about the Clelandale but this drawing of a Cleland may be of interest.


It is cheers! Re: building a similar bike from an old frame - imagine the bb height will be a sticking point. The Cannondale frame used seemed to have been considered useful for trials in its own right, looking at what cropped up when I googled it. Having never had an Ally frame I wouldn't know what to expect from an old & probably well used example, hence wondering about putting longer forks on an old steel frame to raise the bb. With a drawing at least now I can find out.

Re: Surly Karate -
Quote:
2. the frame clearances,"extendable up to 14mm".


And at its extremes with big tyres, the clearances aren't that big looking at the description, & mudguards offroad need space. I look my Saracen down a short track last weekend as a shortcut & twice had to stop to fish bits of gravel out of the tyres - the guards are fitted close as its usually used on the road!

Quote:
If you're seriously thinking of building yourself a genuine Cleland, I can provide full details, but the information is quite extensive, so may not be suitable for this platform. Perhaps you can give me your email address and I can send it all there. The material is not in sendable form at the moment, so allow 2 or three weeks.

You'll need a very simple workshop and plenty of time. If you're lucky, you can do it for less than £500.


Hey great Geoff i'd be very interested! I'll email you later - no rush to reply mind, as this fixie won't be done till Christmas. Don't know whether I could build a frame from scratch mind - I can do Oxy & Mig but have never brazed. I'd love to have a look at whats involved though & see if I could.

Thanks for all the info so far & great thread - soz to CK for encouraging the Cleland/Highpath slant - maybe this warrants its own thread?

Ian

P.S:-
Quote:
I'm not advocating the Surly frame as a basis for a Cleland-style bike - just using it as an example of a large-wheeled bike with a short rear end.

Thats why I mentioned it Jim - didn't note the bb height though. They seem to make some nice frames - the LHT gets raved about a fair bit, as does the cargo frame.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:29 pm
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hello everyone - first posting after i just found this forum :D

what a great idea!

been reading this topic with some great interest as i was one of the first round here who had a mountain bike back in 1982

i saw in magazines some seriously trick stuff comin from the US and quickly decided i had to have one - sold my road bike for a ridgeback - then took it down to see Jack Taylor - well as you might know jack n his 2 brothers were from stockton on tees where i live (they have long since retired) they saw the bike i had and after i told them i wanted it modified for use in errrr 'british climate' he said well how - he had never seen such a bike before - he asked if he could borrow it for a few days to drool over it - lol - i had lots of mods done to it - moving cables to top tubes rear hub brakes, carring straps, water cage brackets, carrier brackets and so on - at the time most bikes just didnt have any sort of suspension just my backside n arms! lol

we used to have a meeting of 5-10 riders at great ayton area - going off into the north york moors every week some names - graham longstaff, fred cumber, simon kipling.. loads of others - these were days where it wasnt about speed but finding the deepest muddiest rutted track we could and trying to ride the full length of it... class days...

we had on a number of occasions the Orange mountainbike guys come over from the lakes - lester noble, dan... cant remember his name - they were really good racers.. very quick and they usually turned up with some pretty trick and new machines... i remember one day he turned up with a rear suspension frame he had made.. we where so jaw dropped - WTF is that!!!!!!!! on a hill it was unbeatable - as he pedalled the rear bit more - cool bit of kit!

some race events if anyone remembers

Viking Chase?? - cleveland search and rescue organised event - 13.5 miles either bike, run or walk - some mean climbs..

Boltby Bash?? - that was a mainly forest thrash with some very very fast gravel roads

Polaris challenge?? - 2 days orienteering over the NY moors - you had half the co-ordinates one day - half the next - camped out in between - was 'kin freezin.. peed down first day - froze over night - was boggy second - came 50th overall out of 500.. chuffed with that... :roll:

did the Man vs Bike vs Horse once - lol - got wet...

Grundig challenge in aviemore??? a round of the world champs
was called the calsberg challenge the year before same place - 60 miles off road through the rothiemurcus estate - 3 laps - bout 3 river crossing each lap with water waist deep - even had the army arm locked in a chain to catch people who got washed away!!! :shock:

anyone remember Jez avery? the one wheel wonder with his swiss flop or summink?? lol - was a magician on a bike..

i remember doing the cleveland colleges cyclo cross championships on my bike one year - there was 2 entrants - me n danny pluck - he turned up once at normanby college for the race straight from work at british steel in his donkey jacket and hob nails - raced in em too.. brilliant race - the track ended up in a total muddy slop like water.. nearly hub deep - we all looked like mud monsters finding it hard to move..

we had to be creative tho with the bikes - due to weather and mud we needed some mods doing.. rim brakes didnt work at the time - basic cantilevers just didnt have any power - had worked on many a design of mud scrapers, seat suspension (made a carry strap from an old leather belt for those long moors carries :lol: )and on n on.. man i wish i could go back n do those days again.. i still have my bike in the workshop now - wouldnt get rid of it - now painted in stars n stripes with yellow n white stripes...

would be nice to meet or get in touch with some of the guys again - havnt seen them in over 20 years or more


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:43 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:25 pm
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Location: Near Wendover Bucks
Quote:
sold my road bike for a ridgeback - then took it down to see Jack Taylor
Welcome Sam! The above was a pretty wise move.

The Ridgeback first appeared in the 1983 Freewheel catalogue. I know because I kept a small collection of catalogues including 1980s' Freewheel.

See this thread for more Ridgeback info...

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... c&start=15


Last edited by GrahamJohnWallace on Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:29 pm
Posts: 5
yea - i had a vitus 979 dural at the time - couldnt afford the carbon one - bout a grand then!! sold it to a guy down cornwall for 400 squid - 2nd hand i thought that was a good deal but in reflection - it did have suntour superb pro gear fitted - had to sell an arm to buy thats stuff.. :D

man we had some good days - people were amazed to see bikes on the moors and we had a lot of problems as well - there were probs with access even on bridleways! walkers just wanted to kill you or stare at you blankly... lol.. iv still got some old magazines from the time somewhere kickin about - 1st editions - i kept em - and 2nd editions.. read em from time to time..

:D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:59 pm 
Pumpy's Bear
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:03 pm
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Location: Hereford
Top reminicising Sam
yosamite sam wrote:
Polaris challenge?? - 2 days orienteering over the NY moors - you had half the co-ordinates one day - half the next - camped out in between - was 'kin freezin.. peed down first day - froze over night - was boggy second - came 50th overall out of 500.. chuffed with that... :roll:
stripes...


I remember that Polaris, first one I think? Anyway, I had no bike so a friend generously bought me one (less generously he told me I owed him £650) and we pedalled to the pre event campsite in the rain. One awful nights sleep later, I discovered that said friend had organised our weekends food - a pack of fun-size Boost and a pack of fun-size Mars, for two, for two days. In the rain of the first day I recall pushing his lower lip quivering form up the hills. He has since run for England. No idea where we finished but remember it as a great event, even managed to escape from the overnight camp to a pub to take the edge off.

Forgive me dear people, I have allowed memories to get the better of me so back on topic......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:29 pm
Posts: 5
lol - that was a good event - they should do it again - remember the first climb? the start went up a VERY deep rutted tractor trail - couldnt even walk up it! you would of gone to the dudley arms in ingleby greenhow probably - down the long gravel path near the camp site.. :D


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