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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:25 pm 
Gold Trader
Gold Trader

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 2157
Location: Nottingham
All the evidence (the Shimano components, Ritchey Vantage Sport rims, colour and date on seat post) says that my latest is a Tufftrax Elite from 1992. BUT the all top tube cable routing seems to disagree!

Doesn't seem as if ever been apart since new. Rims are unworn. Pity all the decals (except for remnants of "Tuff..." on top tube!) removed - the perpetrator left the glue on and that's the most difficult thing to shift so far!

Cleaned the rims, ditto and greased the hubs and head set. Top cap on L/H shifter missing, but all the rest is there I think.

Don't like the colour - especially for a winter/dark mornings ride - but other than that should be OK.

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:37 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Cheltenham.
I recognise that bike! I made an offer on it a while ago.

I think tufftrax elite, dont worry about the cable routing, I think they swapped about a bit with details like that, and the routing you have there is better IMO than the internal routing which is very prone to rusting. Its much better to be able to see whats going on.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:49 pm 
Gold Trader
Gold Trader

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 2157
Location: Nottingham
Thanks!

"I recognise that bike! I made an offer on it a while ago."

Maybe not THIS one - came via a mate who is in the motor factor trade and got it from a customer in Notts last week. The guy's son had had it from new apparently.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:56 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 588
Location: Cheltenham.
I never saw the bike in the flesh but was sent this picture.............looks similar to me. I think it was Nottingham area too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:58 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:59 pm
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Location: Cheltenham.
Is one of the thumbie tops missing by any chance?

No worries though, I made an offer and didnt hear back from him. Good luck with the build.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:56 pm 
Gold Trader
Gold Trader

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:40 pm
Posts: 2157
Location: Nottingham
Apologies - yes, it is the same one for sure. Small world!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:09 pm 
98+ BoTM Winner
98+ BoTM Winner
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 762
Location: Essex
Cable routing in 92 was a decision between inside, top and side.. My race elite was based on the 92 kili estay frameset and has side routing capable of taking magura hosing to the rear as per some of the 92 magura equipped comp range bikes.

I have also seen other kili estays with top of TT routing but have never seen one in the flesh to see if they accept hose right the way through without modification.

Nice bike by the way, I always liked the 92 sports range being as my first bike was a traverse in the traverse elite xt spec.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:35 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 26146
Location: Moomin Valley
Hmmm...

A blank canvas!

19" Tange db as found on my Protrax.

Ideas on a postcard


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:02 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 497
Location: where having straight teeth in your mouth is more important than the words that come out of it
Rather than post a new thread I thought I'd ask here as this is where the Saracen fans seem to hang out. But apologies if this is wrong...

I had always thought that the Cranes had used Saracen Conquest’s when they went up Kilimanjaro, and that the iconic image of them stood on top of Kili with the black bikes with the red lettering on was of a Conquest. But since purchasing my own Saracen and having re read “Bicycles Up Kilimanjaro” it’s not quite that simple. All the bikes that say “Conquest” on them that I have come across so far have been in 531, whilst the Cranes bikes were in 501 and didn’t say conquest on them anywhere. Nor does Nick ever call them Conquests in the book, and I’m sure he would have mentioned it. He just calls them Saracens and then lists the equipment on them. By contrast a few years later in his book Atlas Biker, Nick clearly lists the bikes used as being Ridgeback 603’s.

So does anyone know when Saracen (or Evans) started using the name “Conquest”? Because could it possibly be that it was only used on 531 bikes after the Cranes ascent of Kilimanjaro, which happened New Years day 1985?

The way I see therefore, I have come across three different bikes and I propose the time line is as follows.

1 The one I own. Similar to Breezer boys 1983 F.W Evans, I am taking mine to be the Saracen equivalent as per Grahamjohnwallace “Evans were curious and later persuaded Bluemell's to build some bikes based on what they had seen. The resulting F.W Evans mountain bikes were mostly silver and branded under the shops own marque. Bluemell’s own Saracen bikes were identical apart from being black.” Built with 501 frame & forks and with a reinforced brake hanger, SARACEN embossed in top of seatstays and lug detail picked out in red. “SARACEN” in red on down tube.

2 The cranes bikes, which must be late 1984. I say late because didn’t XT only come out late 84? Again built in 501 but different to mine as they are now without the reinforced brake hanger and have external dimples in the chainstays. The frame is fully lugged, but the lugs are not picked out in red and the top of the seatstays doesn’t appear to say SARACEN. “SARACEN” in red on downtube.

3 All the other “Conquest” bikes I’ve seen so far. All seem to be of the same design as 2, but are now built in 531 and have the word “Conquest” on the top tube. The other 501 bikes, like Deadrats and Kayas seem to be based up “Kilis” of some sort, so I guess the clue is in the name and these are also 85 onwards?

Isn’t it unlikely that Saracen would change design details from bike to bike mid production, but rather that they would drop superfluous details as they went along? Also, is it likely that in 1984 Saracen were producing bikes in both 501 and 531 (or wouldn’t the Cranes have opted to use a 531 variant)? And lastly when was 531AT actually available. Because I thought that the reason why the first top end Raleigh Mavericks, on sale late 85 I believe, were built in Japan using Cr-Mo tubing was because there was some issue getting hold of it/ the lugs at this time?

So can anyone help?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:12 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:51 pm
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Location: where having straight teeth in your mouth is more important than the words that come out of it
...and LGF as you're already in black why not just go with conquest style red lettering?


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