Cromo Springiness

Hi (I introduced myself in the introduce-yourself-here section yesterday)

I have a 95/96 Marin Stinson that has a lovely, springy ride quality. It's light and fast too. But so many of the roads in my area are so badly maintained that I often feel I need an off road bike for on road riding. I have a couple of aluminium framed GT MTBs but I would like that light springy feeling of the Stinson on a 26" MTB. This would be a simple steed: no suspension, no hydraulics. Just light, fast and springy. And, ideally, not especially attractive to thieves. But this got me thinking about the factors affecting springiness in cromo. In fact, some manufacturers in the nineties might have tried to engineer out the possible springiness of a cromo frame in the name of rigidity. So, this led me to the following questions:

1) How much does tube diameter affect springiness? It probably will, but how much, and how quickly as diameter increases?

2) Butting: I would expect triple-butted to be more springy than single-butted but is there really a noticeable difference?

3) GT: Do their Hellenic frames (triple triangle) reduce springiness in the name of rigidity? An old Timberline or Tequesta might fit the unappealing-to-thieves criterion, but are they light and springy?

4) Does anyone have any recommendations or advice about ride quality in fully rigid cromo-framed MTBs and/or what might fit the bill? An old Marin would seem the obvious choice but is there something more suitable?

Thanks in advance.

The triple triangle design definitely makes them more stiff. So thats the opposite of what you want. Narrow steel tubing is going to be better for you. I would recommend a mid to late 90's trek 930 or 950. They have a great ride quality. They're inexpensive and they are made to accept more modern components (1&1/8 headsets, proper bottom brackets, V-brakes or possibly disc depending on year and model etc.).

Re:

I agree, the Trek would be a good choice.

Re:

Ah! Interesting suggestion. Thank you. Those 90s Treks look very promising. I've never had a retro MTB, just more recent aluminium ones, so it's good to know what's noticeable not just in theory but as a rider.

More generally, I haven't noticed much discussion of ride quality on here - usually just passing comments: early Saracens and Muddy Foxes sound fun but are heavy; Specialized Hardrocks ride well despite being being at the cheaper end, etc. It would be interesting to know what sort of ride quality people are looking for and enjoy in a retro MTB. 'Show us your ride quality' is just impossible though.

Re:

Some of the early to mid 90's tange prestige frames will have the springy ride you are looking for. Lightweight noodely tubing and you can't go wrong. Something like an Orange Prestige or a Marin Team would do you right.

Funnily enough I was considering this very conundrum this morning. But more the mix of materials for tuning a frame. This bought on by considering some of the early 90s Raleigh and others frames.
RaleighUSA made frames with welded 7005 front triangles and Tange Prestige rear triangles. Yes bonded at seat end of top tube and downtube at BB.
So would you (at least in theory I think you should) get the ridged accuracy and tracking of a stiff aluminium front end, and the softer springy rear end of chromo.
Should be a very nice combination.
Hybrid use of materials seems to have gone out of fashion, if not just a short time fad. Pity as today I would have thought with modern technology it could be exploited to great advantage.
Or is the cynic in me correct that frame technology doesn't necessarily sell bikes, whereas changing wheel size does along with the knock on effect of lots of extras (tyre,rims etc etc)

Gerard":3r120gqy said:

Hybrid use of materials seems to have gone out of fashion, if not just a short time fad.

Click to expand...

Gratuitous plug for the Bontrage Experimental thread

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=253448

Gerard":12j86hnh said:

Hybrid use of materials seems to have gone out of fashion, if not just a short time fad. Pity as today I would have thought with modern technology it could be exploited to great advantage.

Click to expand...

I guess with modern carbon fibre moulding techniques and layup, you can pretty much tune the characteristics to what you want. No need for complex multiple materials.

I'd guess that you can get a fair amount of tuning out of a hydro formed alu frame too.

secret_squirrel":3rhk53ap said:

Gerard":3rhk53ap said:

Hybrid use of materials seems to have gone out of fashion, if not just a short time fad.

Click to expand...

Gratuitous plug for the Bontrage Experimental thread

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=253448

Click to expand...

Thanks for that, really interesting and I think well summed up by this from the thread:

13":3rhk53ap said:

Sums up the 90's MTB era in a way, where guys would just build something on an idea without the countless hours of r&d and cad work that builders use today before even picking up a welder.
Guess the idea and design didn't die completely though when you look at bikes like the Yeti Bigtop 29'er.

Click to expand...

Life intervened and distracted me from my bike interests for a few days.

secret_squirrel: Thanks for the Bontrager plug. Amazing bike and good to see that it's in responsible hands. I suppose the early days of something - bikes, or whatever - invite the boldly inventive.

Old School Hero: No doubt correct - fine tuning carbon fibre for rigidity or flex probably does mean that frames combining different metals will remain historical curiosities. A bit like biplanes in the history of aviation, perhaps. Who knows? If the price of carbon fibre drops enough, perhaps it will be all metal bikes that seem like biplanes eventually.

Gerard: Perhaps frame technology doesn't sell bikes. Personally, I'm starting to like 650b: it does seem to offer a touch more grip, and the bumps are smoothed slightly more. After acquiring two square inches of scar tissue on my 26 last year, I appreciate the extra grip especially - slowing down doesn't appeal quite so much. However, tapered head tubes seem like a solution to a problem I've never noticed.

But even though a BMW X5 by most standards is a better car than a Triumph Stag, the Stag offers something else special. In the same way, a retro MTB just appeals for cruising through the countryside. A different quality of ride for different occasions. I don't want a retro MTB to ride like a recent one even if in some sense it's not as 'good'. I'll carry on looking around - there's previous few of those Trek's for sale in the UK.