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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:27 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 24
coomber wrote:
Hi chap, theres no nice way to say this, even as a Saracen fan myself, but the Saracen Havoc was a low end bike, when Saracen were going through their leanest spell. One went on ebay recently for £55 which I think is actually a decent price for it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Team-Saracen- ... 2568b29517

It has low end parts, isnt and isnt regarded as retro. If you can get £40 for it I'd sell it.

And if it is beloved like you say, for that price, keep it.


Thanks for the response. I appreciate it wasn't a high end bike (cost me £550 before any modifications) but this was the lowest end full sus bike they did at the time - the ebay link you sent was a havoc from a couple of years later and produced as you say 'in their leanest spell' which is nothing like the one I have. It is plastic-ey and the shock is a toysRus special whereas my rear shock works one was fitted on bikes going up to £1100 at the time. The havoc I have is from around 1997/1998 before saracen started making really low end stuff, before the saracen raw etc. came out and mine is from the same year as the rush & addiction, which were both awesome bikes made before saracen IMO started to slide. They did another that year too it was a glass fibre XC URT frame in light blue with air shocks front&rear (@ £3000!) but I cant remember the name of it - its heard finding info on such old bikes!

Think i'm gonna keep it for that money, its not gonna cost much to get the forks serviced and it will be as good as new, although I think there may be some confusion as to what havoc I have as the havoc definitely became a 'toy' bike in the years after I bought mine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:36 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:09 am
Posts: 9399
Location: Devon
Fair enough, and you know more it seems then me with late 90s saracen. However, Acera parts are the lowest shimano do, and whilst the shock may be ok in 1997, the URT design has died a death and you only have to look at the price more "prestige" brands get for their higher URT models, such as Gary Fisher Level Bettys, and Trek Y bikes, to see that the URT 90 suspension bikes just hold little value.

You obviously love the bike, so keep it as it wont make you rich or contribute much to a new bike.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:39 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 24
further to my previous post, managed to find this .PDF article with photo's about the havoc I have which I think explains what I mean about it not being one of the 'toy' ones :)

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 0Q&cad=rja


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:50 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 24
coomber wrote:
Fair enough, and you know more it seems then me with late 90s saracen. However, Acera parts are the lowest shimano do, and whilst the shock may be ok in 1997, the URT design has died a death and you only have to look at the price more "prestige" brands get for their higher URT models, such as Gary Fisher Level Bettys, and Trek Y bikes, to see that the URT 90 suspension bikes just hold little value.

You obviously love the bike, so keep it as it wont make you rich or contribute much to a new bike.



I don't know too much, only what i remember from the extensive research I did at the time (£550 was a LOT of money for me to spend at the time lol) which is why I was hoping to find someone who knows more than me. I agree, acera were low end, only one or 2 above the SIS stuff you got on your bog standard brandless bikes, but with the forks and shock costing so much at the time and with it having a decent frame that was exactly the same as some of the £1000+ bigger boys in the range I guess they had to shave money somewhere (the original Rigida single wall rims and original V brakes could be included in this cost saving too hence why I changed them).
I do love it and always have, so I'll prob get it serviced and put it back into storage and treat myself to someting newer for everyday, just seems a shame to strip it or store it if someone out there would actually have fun using it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:24 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:54 pm
Posts: 905
Location: Heathfield
I'd keep the bike, You obviously love it and as said before you'll never get what you think it's worth for it. The forks were priced between £50-60 when they were new, and were usually featured on £250-350 hardtails. I've still got my 1999 Hahannah (sp) because I know I'd never get anything for it and I just can't bear to see it go. I'm sure if you ride it occasionally it'll still put a smile on your face, and that's what it's all about isn't it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:55 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 24
markwashington wrote:
I'd keep the bike, You obviously love it and as said before you'll never get what you think it's worth for it. The forks were priced between £50-60 when they were new, and were usually featured on £250-350 hardtails. I've still got my 1999 Hahannah (sp) because I know I'd never get anything for it and I just can't bear to see it go. I'm sure if you ride it occasionally it'll still put a smile on your face, and that's what it's all about isn't it?


Its not that 'I wont get what I think it's worth for it' as I truly don't know what its worth, thats what I was asking originally... The RST 281 forks on my havoc were priced at £119.99 (RRP) when they were new and went down to about £80 the next year when the triple clamp DH version came out (my mate bought a set for £85 delivered the next year for his bike and thought it was a good saving). They may have dropped even lower than that later but they definitely weren't £50-£60 when they were first released.
As i said previously I think i'm going to take everyones advice including yours and service it professionally then stick it back into storage as its too nice to strip down - even if i never ride it again for the £100 i'll get in parts i'd rather keep it than butcher it. Unless I get desperate for funds for my new bike then maybe you'll find the wheels and brakes in the for sale section! :)

I'll post some pics of it on here once i've had it sorted and you can see what all the fuss is about ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:08 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:54 pm
Posts: 905
Location: Heathfield
I don't mean value in purely economic means but also taking into account history, love etc. This is why selling a bike bought from new (unless it's a Klein/Hei Hei etc) is always a massive blow.

I bought a pair of either 1997 or 1998 281's at Bike 98 for £55, I remember this because I got them home and realised they didn't fit my current bike (I was a fool) I then sold them on to a mate for £45 which almost killed the 15yr old me. I'm not sure what year your bike was, but checking one of my 1998 MBUK's the 281's could be had for £49.99 to £99.99 (depending on sellers) so that fits in with them going down in price as the years went on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:53 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 24
markwashington wrote:
I don't mean value in purely economic means but also taking into account history, love etc. This is why selling a bike bought from new (unless it's a Klein/Hei Hei etc) is always a massive blow.

I bought a pair of either 1997 or 1998 281's at Bike 98 for £55, I remember this because I got them home and realised they didn't fit my current bike (I was a fool) I then sold them on to a mate for £45 which almost killed the 15yr old me. I'm not sure what year your bike was, but checking one of my 1998 MBUK's the 281's could be had for £49.99 to £99.99 (depending on sellers) so that fits in with them going down in price as the years went on.


Ah i see what you mean now :)
Maybe my bike is 1997 then, the 281's definitely dropped like a lead baloon the year after i got mine which was strange as they were the best budget forks out at the time by a long shot - so smooth (smoother than my mums rock shox that were at least 2 times the price!).

So its off to the bike shop for the havoc next week then it looks like...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:21 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:49 pm
Posts: 24
Now i'm looking at a new bike, my Dad is thinking of joining me and might sell his Klein Pulse Pro... Got the spec off bikepedia and added a few bits that I know he changed - any idea what this will be worth these days? Its in excellent condition as he's had it from new and doesn't use it very often but he still has it professionally serviced regularly and has used it most weekends this summer.

I guess the frame would be worth a fair bit as you can literally pick the bike up with 2 fingers!

Full Spec:

Bicycle Type: Mountain bike, front suspension

Weight: 24.3 lbs

Size: Medium (18" seat tube)

Color: Solar Yellow

Frame Construction: TIG-welded

Frame Tubing Material: Klein aluminum Power Tubing

Fork Brand & Model: Rock Shox Judy XC

Fork Material: Aluminum/magnesium

Component Group: SRAM ESP 9.0SL/Shimano Deore LX

Brakes: Avid 1D-20

Brake Levers: Avid SD-1.9 L

Shift Levers: SRAM ESP 9.0SL Grip Shift

Front Derailleur: Shimano Deore LX top-swing, top-pull

Rear Derailleur: SRAM ESP 9.0SL

Crankset: Sugino Mighty 700, 20/32/42 teeth

Pedals (upgraded): Shimano DX PD-M636 SPD

Bottom Bracket: Shimano BB-UN52, 113mm spindle

BB Shell Width: 73mm English

Rear Cogs: 8-speed, 11 - 30 teeth

Chain: Sachs PC-41, 1/2 x 3/32"

Seatpost: Bontrager Comp, 31.6mm diameter

Saddle: Bontrager FS Plus 10

Handlebar (upgraded): Roox 4.0mm thick walled DH Riser Bars

Handlebar Stem: Bontrager

Headset: 1 1/8" threadless Aheadset Kontak SA

Hubs Front: Cane Creek Crono

Hubs Rear: Shimano Deore LX

Rims Front: Cane Creek Crono Metro 24-hole

Rims Rear: Bontrager Mustang Asym 32-hole

Spokes: DT stainless steel, 2.0mm double-butted

Spoke Nipples: Alloy nipples



So what do you think everyone?


Attachments:
klein.jpg
klein.jpg [ 21.91 KiB | Viewed 828 times ]
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 Post subject: 1999 GT XCR 1000 STS
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:13 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:16 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Coventry / St. Albans
As the title.

Thinking about selling it, or retiring it for a while. I know it's a collectable bike, but mine is slightly modified so not sure on the value.

Bike is standard, apart from:

2003 Marzocchi Bomber MX Comp front forks
Hope XC4 160mm front brake
Norco front hub
Magura HS11 rear brake
FSA seat post
Specialized Body Geometry saddle
ODI Lock-on grips


Only other differences are, it's missing graphics on one side of the frame. I-Drive works spot on, and front and rear shocks both hold air pressure perfectly.

Cheers
Chris


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