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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:05 am 
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groovyblueshed wrote:
tuubz wrote:
Wow :shock:
I didnt mean to stir up something that has obviously been discussed many times before. Maybe i should have just searched back through threads but sometimes it can be a bit much to get some information. Anyhow i value all your opinions as you quite clearly know what your talking about. Please dont have a go at each other.

What would one expect to pay for infinity cw , complete bike , period correct ish , doesnt have to be mint as it will be used daily ?? I know the figure will vary , but ballpark ?



I didn't realise asking for and discussing Orange Clockwork information could get someone so frothing at the gills too. Not sure where all that came from. Hope it doesn't put you off.




Glad you enjoyed the "Join the Clockwork club" thread mate, and thank you for Contributing, it wasn't easy but worth the effort in the end and thankfully still on going after 27 pages and a bunch of quality bikes on Show.

The model needed its own space here...., its dear to many.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=127707&start=230


8)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:09 am 
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tuubz wrote:
No not at all. Im grateful for the help and advise from the guys on here. The thing is i know nowt about Orange history but have recently been bitten by the orange bug. :wink:



As I say Brocklanders is your man for pricing.

but heres the recent one I mentioned that was came up not too long ago, I don't recall selling many BITD with this tube set either... :?

Stockos is in my mind also, he too did a cracking job.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=188154&start=450


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:23 am 
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tuubz wrote:
No not at all. Im grateful for the help and advise from the guys on here. The thing is i know nowt about Orange history but have recently been bitten by the orange bug. :wink:


I think there could be others on RB who could provide info and history for you, but in a more positive manner, if you get my drift. You do get the odd random troll-like rant occasionally.

For me, I love my Orange Clockwork. It was the first proper mountain bike I could afford and it came from a company based just a few miles from where I lived in my home town of Huddersfield. I've had it since 1992 and am deeply attached to it as I associate it with my home, my roots, my love of cycling and many other things I hold dear.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:36 am 
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sinnerman wrote:
brocklanders023 wrote:
As I said, I didn't mention the hand built ones as they just confuse the issue and have done in the past. If you can be bothered you can look back to where I have referenced them in other threads. I'd love to see one and hope your clues suggest you have one. If this is the case I look forward to you working your usual magic on it.

I am no expert, I've just held an interest since bitd and have spent too much time looking at them since finding this site. Anthony know far more then me and has corrected me many times.

I looked back to the Prestige thread and although the thought it was hand built is mentioned it is quickly quashed and thats about that from what I can see. I'm also yet to see a retro Orange with 'made in England' on it. I'd genuinely be interested to see one that does. I think it's more a case of people thinking they were bitd because they are now rather then it being thought back then. Might have been different where you live though.



I cant say I paid much attention to the badges then or now to be honest, I was thinking more of there catalogue marketing to be truthful.

It was cleverly written and its plain to see how so many misconstrued the bikes as being made in Halifax, cleverly written and using terms like "Our factory based in Halifax", Head "frame builder" and designer" etc etc, (this was as early as 91 from memory).
It does touch on Far east assembly, so it is there, but quickly makes reference to "Other" manufacturers. (using the 91 catalogue for ref in our archives)

It goes on like this throughout, talking of R+D etc, it mentions Assembly a lot too, but such a grey area it is clear why so many perhaps Just presumed. ( and you cant blame them, if you read it)

I suspect the guys selling at ground Zero didn't help matters in this regard either, my experience of sales back then, a lot of Kudos was placed on English built bicycles, conveniently adding weight to an easy sale perhaps.

Whether it was intentionally written up like this I suspect we will never "Honestly" know.

And don't think this is a slight on my part in anyway to orange, it isn't , I rate them then and now, and whilst they aren't responsible for the smaller firms building by hand, falling by the wayside, so many did feel the pinch due to cheaper far east imports. (which is a great shame, but I suppose the way of the world).

Ref the Clockwork it does come with an additional one piece bar and stem like the formula which is nice, and was designed by... yet built for Orange. (this in itself indicates the catalogue marketing for me.)

Its in a sorry state but as and when ill post a thread.



Oh happy days. Have just spent a relaxing evening fettling the cat, entertaining the mrs, deciding on spokes/rims/hubs/nipples (for my new wheel build), and over my fish supper, revisiting my entire collection of Orange brochures going back to 1991. Ah, happy days…

Having taken time to carefully read again and fully understand everything Orange said in each of their brochures, I’m not sure how people have managed to misconstrue what Orange have said. Aside of the branding and marketing, it’s actually all very clear and accurate information that’s been provided. Orange isn’t the only bike company to have used strong distinctive branding and clever marketing. I really don’t think they’ve misled anyone. To be honest, it doesn’t really matter who/where/how the bikes frames were manufactured. Plenty of companies (including other bike brands) design products and commission outside manufacturers to make them for their specs and brand.

The ‘designed in Halifax’ and ‘hand built in Halifax’ decals didn’t appear on Orange bikes until the late 90’s. The ‘hand built in Halifax’ refers to the monocoque suspension bikes they developed, fabricated, built and assembled in Halifax. The ‘designed in Halifax’ refers to some of the steel and other bikes that were designed in Halifax, but fabricated elsewhere on their behalf, then finished and assembled back in Halifax. A lot of the ‘hand built in Halifax’ statements refer to their range of suspension bikes made from the mid 2000’s onwards.

I’lll happily supply copies of all the brochures for everyone’s pleasure. Flicking through them all brought back many happy memories for me of hurtling down Caerphilly Mountain and many other locations.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:39 am 
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The nickle forks look nice on yours Groovy. Your dead right sinnerman , stockos is the nuts !!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:45 am 
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What was that ...... Fish supper , orange brochures and entertaining the mrs's nipples ....... Nice


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:21 am 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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groovyblueshed wrote:
sinnerman wrote:
brocklanders023 wrote:
As I said, I didn't mention the hand built ones as they just confuse the issue and have done in the past. If you can be bothered you can look back to where I have referenced them in other threads. I'd love to see one and hope your clues suggest you have one. If this is the case I look forward to you working your usual magic on it.

I am no expert, I've just held an interest since bitd and have spent too much time looking at them since finding this site. Anthony know far more then me and has corrected me many times.

I looked back to the Prestige thread and although the thought it was hand built is mentioned it is quickly quashed and thats about that from what I can see. I'm also yet to see a retro Orange with 'made in England' on it. I'd genuinely be interested to see one that does. I think it's more a case of people thinking they were bitd because they are now rather then it being thought back then. Might have been different where you live though.



I cant say I paid much attention to the badges then or now to be honest, I was thinking more of there catalogue marketing to be truthful.

It was cleverly written and its plain to see how so many misconstrued the bikes as being made in Halifax, cleverly written and using terms like "Our factory based in Halifax", Head "frame builder" and designer" etc etc, (this was as early as 91 from memory).
It does touch on Far east assembly, so it is there, but quickly makes reference to "Other" manufacturers. (using the 91 catalogue for ref in our archives)

It goes on like this throughout, talking of R+D etc, it mentions Assembly a lot too, but such a grey area it is clear why so many perhaps Just presumed. ( and you cant blame them, if you read it)

I suspect the guys selling at ground Zero didn't help matters in this regard either, my experience of sales back then, a lot of Kudos was placed on English built bicycles, conveniently adding weight to an easy sale perhaps.

Whether it was intentionally written up like this I suspect we will never "Honestly" know.

And don't think this is a slight on my part in anyway to orange, it isn't , I rate them then and now, and whilst they aren't responsible for the smaller firms building by hand, falling by the wayside, so many did feel the pinch due to cheaper far east imports. (which is a great shame, but I suppose the way of the world).

Ref the Clockwork it does come with an additional one piece bar and stem like the formula which is nice, and was designed by... yet built for Orange. (this in itself indicates the catalogue marketing for me.)

Its in a sorry state but as and when ill post a thread.



Oh happy days. Have just spent a relaxing evening fettling the cat, entertaining the mrs, deciding on spokes/rims/hubs/nipples (for my new wheel build), and over my fish supper, revisiting my entire collection of Orange brochures going back to 1991. Ah, happy days…

Having taken time to carefully read again and fully understand everything Orange said in each of their brochures, I’m not sure how people have managed to misconstrue what Orange have said. Aside of the branding and marketing, it’s actually all very clear and accurate information that’s been provided. Orange isn’t the only bike company to have used strong distinctive branding and clever marketing. I really don’t think they’ve misled anyone. To be honest, it doesn’t really matter who/where/how the bikes frames were manufactured. Plenty of companies (including other bike brands) design products and commission outside manufacturers to make them for their specs and brand.

The ‘designed in Halifax’ and ‘hand built in Halifax’ decals didn’t appear on Orange bikes until the late 90’s. The ‘hand built in Halifax’ refers to the monocoque suspension bikes they developed, fabricated, built and assembled in Halifax. The ‘designed in Halifax’ refers to some of the steel and other bikes that were designed in Halifax, but fabricated elsewhere on their behalf, then finished and assembled back in Halifax. A lot of the ‘hand built in Halifax’ statements refer to their range of suspension bikes made from the mid 2000’s onwards.

I’lll happily supply copies of all the brochures for everyone’s pleasure. Flicking through them all brought back many happy memories for me of hurtling down Caerphilly Mountain and many other locations.



Blimey, I wish I had your skills reading and digesting 10 full catalogues in 14 minutes. and you are very lucky to have every single catalogue.

Perhaps I was the only one that did misinterpret the info from late 88 through to 91 then.

Thanks for the offer fella I will come to you in future instead of using what I have here or the archives for reference.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/M ... atalogues/


Last edited by sinnerman on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:35 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:25 am 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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tuubz wrote:
The nickle forks look nice on yours Groovy. Your dead right sinnerman , stockos is the nuts !!



I realise the other model was a a Prestige, but the Ritchey Logic part was of interest, and the condition and originality was something that struck me for the price asked, and thought it was worth a mention.

Stockos was cool.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Blimey, I wish I had your skills reading and digesting 10 full catalogues in 14 minutes. and you are very lucky to have every single catalogue.

Perhaps I was the only one that did misinterpret the info from late 88 through to 91 then.

Thanks for the offer fella I will come to you in future instead of using what I have here or the archives for reference.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/M ... atalogues/[/quote]


Cheers ears! In no way am I an expert or oracle, but if I can find out information that helps others, then I'm happy.

You guys got me thinking – may be I'd got things wrong – so I just had to clarify things in my own mind around understanding Orange's development and heritage. Sometimes the rosy fog of time and golden glow of mythology alter perceptions and memories of how things actually happened. Fortunately, getting sidetracked by looking at old Orange stuff is right up my street, but frustrating for my partner and also my cat with a perpetually empty stomach!

Thanks for the link to the catalogue archive – how do I upload some more to help complete it?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:37 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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groovyblueshed wrote:
Blimey, I wish I had your skills reading and digesting 10 full catalogues in 14 minutes. and you are very lucky to have every single catalogue.

Perhaps I was the only one that did misinterpret the info from late 88 through to 91 then.

Thanks for the offer fella I will come to you in future instead of using what I have here or the archives for reference.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/M ... atalogues/



Cheers ears! In no way am I an expert or oracle, but if I can find out information that helps others, then I'm happy.

You guys got me thinking – may be I'd got things wrong – so I just had to clarify things in my own mind around understanding Orange's development and heritage. Sometimes the rosy fog of time and golden glow of mythology alter perceptions and memories of how things actually happened. Fortunately, getting sidetracked by looking at old Orange stuff is right up my street, but frustrating for my partner and also my cat with a perpetually empty stomach!

Thanks for the link to the catalogue archive – how do I upload some more to help complete it?[/quote]



Your right about the passage of time for sure... 8)
The catalogue im missing is 89 if you had that it would be a great help to me right now... :oops:

You could always scan and upload it here. And/or scan it and send it to John for Upload.


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