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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:19 pm 
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unkleGsif wrote:
Neil wrote:

Happy now?


No Neil, I am not Happy... but only because you obviously have far more free time on your hands then I do :wink:

G


I don't - I didn't spend time feverishly searching, over time, I read and keep hold of pertinent study info, I seem to remember having read about this some time back, and true enough, I had.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:22 pm 
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Neil wrote:
Which tells us what we already discussed - pulling as well as pushing with the pedals, may make the pedalling most effective (ie, you may be able to deliver power maximally), but it reduces efficiency - which is why it doesn't significantly factor in anything other than brief periods of maximum effort.

Happy now?


Define a brief period.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:24 pm 
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JamesM wrote:
Neil wrote:
Which tells us what we already discussed - pulling as well as pushing with the pedals, may make the pedalling most effective (ie, you may be able to deliver power maximally), but it reduces efficiency - which is why it doesn't significantly factor in anything other than brief periods of maximum effort.

Happy now?


Define a brief period.


<sigh> OK, don't bother arguing with my summation, then - ignore it. By all means, wibble with the wordings and findings from the synopsis of the studies if you wish.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Neil wrote:
unkleGsif wrote:
Neil wrote:

Happy now?


No Neil, I am not Happy... but only because you obviously have far more free time on your hands then I do :wink:

G


I don't - I didn't spend time feverishly searching, over time, I read and keep hold of pertinent study info, I seem to remember having read about this some time back, and true enough, I had.



Pulling your leg Neil.... :wink:
... or should that be pulling AND pushing? :lol: :lol:

All good info, however no doubt there is an equal volume of research that will say the exact opposite... but thats how it works



G


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Neil wrote:
<sigh> OK, don't bother arguing with my summation, then - ignore it. By all means, wibble with the wordings and findings from the synopsis of the studies if you wish.


I read it but it didn't mention anything about brief periods or maximum efforts. You added those factors in with your comment at the end. So are we talking 200m sprint or 10 mile TT?


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:36 pm 
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unkleGsif wrote:
All good info, however no doubt there is an equal volume of research that will say the exact opposite... but thats how it works


Well maybe - going back a while when I first looked at it, I wasn't looking for a conclusion, I was just looking to see what had been studied.

Thing is, often, people have some ideas buried in their minds, reluctant to be disturbed. And their experience after that, largely goes to support their bias. Other things are then rejected. Looking at the wording, I'm not convinced they were necessarily looking to foist a certain conclusion.

Problem is, some will look to find out. And some will look to support their current opinion / bias. At the time, I just wanted to know.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:40 pm 
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JamesM wrote:
Neil wrote:
<sigh> OK, don't bother arguing with my summation, then - ignore it. By all means, wibble with the wordings and findings from the synopsis of the studies if you wish.


I read it but it didn't mention anything about brief periods or maximum efforts. You added those factors in with your comment at the end. So are we talking 200m sprint or 10 mile TT?


Crikey, there's none so blind... I even bolded the bits from the conclusions:-

From studies... wrote:
Consequently, shoe-pedal interface (PED vs. CLIP) did not significantly influence cycling technique during submaximal exercise. However, an active pulling-up action on the pedal during upstroke increased the pedalling effectiveness, while reducing net mechanical efficiency.

Mechanical effectiveness is not indicative of gross efficiency across pedaling techniques.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:47 pm 
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Where is the mention off effort and period?


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:49 pm 
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If I'm not mistaken, the abstract say they are on stationary cycles.
This is the MTB section, we ride rough bumpy terrain, roads with pot holes, bridleways with tractor tracks, chalk stone laid path and roots and mud and sandy stuff....
Did you come across any real world research? I know they can datalog during rides nowadays?

Might hit sciencedirect see what crops up.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:53 pm 
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JamesM wrote:
Where is the mention off effort and period?


OK, I'm out.

Those are the extracts / summaries of the studies I found a few years back. If you don't like their conclusions, by all means, feel free to reject them.

If you feel sufficiently motivated, by all means search out your own scientific evidence on the subject (and I don't just mean somebody's opinion on a webpage...).

As things stand, though, you don't appear to be truly challenging the rationale or method - but arguing because you don't like the conclusion. And that's your choice.

Thing is, you'd partly got there with some of your own comments, which I had hoped were just about to trigger some epiphany, but it doesn't appear to be.

People can spend ages arguing their opinion, what they believe, what makes sense to them, in spite of, or in denial of other things - and that's your choice. But I've said my piece, I've supported it with previous research. If that ain't good enough, then feel free to carry on believing what you choose.


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