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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:58 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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Location: Don't mess with monkeys, man
FluffyChicken wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the abstract say they are on stationary cycles.
This is the MTB section, we ride rough bumpy terrain, roads with pot holes, bridleways with tractor tracks, chalk stone laid path and roots and mud and sandy stuff....
Did you come across any real world research? I know they can datalog during rides nowadays?


That's a slightly different tack, though, isn't it?

The studies - and debate, largely, up to this point, have been about pedalling efficiency, as opposed to the most mechanical effectiveness (ie, it does go - or at least I hope it should - without saying, that using more than one part of the stroke to input force, is likely to increase mechanical effect, but what matters, is what's most efficient on the body over time).

That the rigeurs of MTB-ing might hold some advantages to the feet being attached to the pedals, for other reasons, not necessarily directly related to efficiency - but again, they could probably be boasted on either side of the clipless / clip choice.

FluffyChicken wrote:
Might hit sciencedirect see what crops up.


Go to it, I'm sure it's all good in the round.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Neil wrote:
JamesM wrote:
Where is the mention off effort and period?


OK, I'm out.

Those are the extracts / summaries of the studies I found a few years back. If you don't like their conclusions, by all means, feel free to reject them.

If you feel sufficiently motivated, by all means search out your own scientific evidence on the subject (and I don't just mean somebody's opinion on a webpage...).

As things stand, though, you don't appear to be truly challenging the rationale or method - but arguing because you don't like the conclusion. And that's your choice.

Thing is, you'd partly got there with some of your own comments, which I had hoped were just about to trigger some epiphany, but it doesn't appear to be.



The conclusions were fine and I accept the point about efficiency but that was never my argument. What they didn't do is prove or disprove my point which seems to have been missed by most.

My comments were mostly questions which I'd hoped would, in trying to answer them, make people see the point I was trying to get across. But no one gave me answers, so I guess it didn't work.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:30 pm 
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I'll never get along with spuds, :roll: ...but then, i was originally of the BMX ilk :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:20 pm 
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JamesM wrote:
My comments were mostly questions which I'd hoped would, in trying to answer them, make people see the point I was trying to get across. But no one gave me answers, so I guess it didn't work.
your point seems to be "I go quicker when I think I'm pushing AND pulling on the pedals, everyone should do it/that's why clipless are so good"
The reality is that a better/more efficient way to get faster is to push more effectively/harder. Or faster. Or both.
There's loads of data to back it up as well.

BTW pedalling in circles doesn't actually mean pushing and pulling, it refers to fluidity and "soupless" in your pedalling style. As opposed to pedalling squares.
Enjoy, I'm out too.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
For anyone trying SPDs for the first time, I would suggest a nice long off road venue, like a designated cycle way.

Could save you a nasty bash at the least.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:39 pm 
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mattr wrote:

your point seems to be "I go quicker when I think I'm pushing AND pulling on the pedals, everyone should do it/that's why clipless are so good"


No, the topic is called clipless merits and I was pointing out that being able to do more than just push is a merit. I wasn't saying everyone should ride clipless and push/pull pedal circles or whatever. I was meerly saying being able to do a number of different pedaling types is a merit as it can increase your power output and make you go faster. Kingoffootball gave some very valid reasons why for him he isnt interested in riding clipless and I said nothing to try and change his mind.
mattr wrote:

The reality is that a better/more efficient way to get faster is to push more effectively/harder. Or faster. Or both.
There's loads of data to back it up as well.


What if I can't push harder or faster or both because I'm already pushing as hard and spinning as fast as I can. If I start pulling too according to the study Neil posted my effciency will go down by 9% but my pedaling effectiveness will go up by 86%. So I'll go lots faster but won't be able to get as far down the road before I run out of gas. So lets say just by pushing I could have got say 50 miles but by puliing too I'm only going to get 45.5. Well if I'm doing a 40 mile race that's fine and with my 86% increase in pedaling effectivness my time will be much better too. And with clipless I can choose and change which pedaling style I want to do at the drop of a hat, so that's a merit, isnt it?

mattr wrote:
BTW pedalling in circles doesn't actually mean pushing and pulling, it refers to fluidity and "soupless" in your pedalling style. As opposed to pedalling squares.
Enjoy, I'm out too.


I know. Circles, Squares, pulling, wiping the mud off your shoe, whatever way you do it I'm talking about using more muscles than just your quads.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:15 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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New Infinity Pedal design on kickstarter (apologies if it's been posted elsewhere):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/20 ... =discovery


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:12 pm 
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I really like the look of them 8)

WD :D


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:21 pm 
Gold Trader / PoTM Winner / RB Rider
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:26 pm
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Location: 54 Festive Road Winchcombe GLOUCS Yarp...
Late to the party but have just fitted first set of spds on May road bike at age 47. Always hade toe clips straps for road and dmr types for mtb. Will continue with dmrs for mtb at presents as I like the reassurance of being able to step off quickly especially on gradients.

On road it's a far more fluid feel with a 'washing machine' motion rather tHan press press press......

Liking it so far and set up to easily clip out when required. Bought a new air of 520s and used mo88 shoes to try out for under £50 total.


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 Post subject: Re: Clipless merits
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:24 pm
Posts: 95
Location: Virginia, USA
Flats on my Rocky, flats on my Kona, clips-n-straps on my Zinn and Ritchy clipless on my Grove. :) They all have the place and purpose...


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