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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:39 am 
BoTM Winner / retrobike rider
BoTM Winner / retrobike rider
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:24 pm
Posts: 5668
Location: Dorset
RadNomad wrote:
This thread is very interesting! Lots of valid and well considered opinions.
Ultimately though I don't care if retro is slower, it makes the ride - and the joy - last longer and that's just fine :D Like driving a Triumph TR4 instead of a Carrera 4.


Agreed!!


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:20 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:02 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Chelmsford
REKIBorter wrote:
Perhaps we should ask Neil__j. He has a rigid KHS and a custom built modern Ti framed bike. The Ti framed bikes geometry and design was based on his KHS with the addition of sus forks and disk brakes. He is a fast rider so maybe he can tell us which is quicker.

A little late to this and possibly not that relevant in terms of modern vs. retro, but I'd say the Ti is a bit faster but that's all due to the 80mm boingy forks. As the frames are fundamentally the same in terms of geometry it's the frame tubing/material and components that will make any difference. Both are about the same weight but the front/rear balance is different. Both 8 speed with thumbies but the Ti has a compact chainset so lower overall gearing. I typically use the same tyres at the same pressures on both.

I've used both in the last month on a (flat East Anglian) local 22 mile loop and would say it's the forks that make the most difference and only in the rougher sections, so a bit of suspension on the KHS would probably make them pretty equal. In a race like Mayhem I'm sure I'd be faster for longer on the Ti, but wouldn't get the same satisfaction of passing people both up and down hills on modern bikes as I do on the KHS.

A proper modern bike with slack geometry, massive forks and wide bars would be a whole different thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:51 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:12 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Leeds
No , I used to ride a 91 MF Alu Pro BITD (yes I bought it new and it was discounted to about £550 as I bought it in 92), big gap of a lot of years and 1 nice sunny afternoon later it's pulled off the garage wall, quick check over and tyres blown up and off I go for a quick zip down the towpath to see if I could still ride, a few miles later and I remember why I bought it . So off we go again back on the bike , lets go round Gisburn (as I sometimes camp close by), great fun but a bit of a hammering on the arms and hands (this is all about 2 years ago now). A few weekends in the Dales cycling on t moors and zipping round Gisburn and I spot some repack run in the Yorkshire AG on this site . What the hell I'll give it a go so went and did it and had a blast .
Now I've come to the conclusion that I'm not getting any younger so bought and old M2 Stumpy to get some front end boing, ahh much better , bung some disc brakes on it and it's even better , slight problem though as it's a bit small for me and the forks were a bit past there best , bang it up for sale and get my money back , great , just happened to see a very low mileage M5 Stumpy for sale at sensible money on here in a 19" so we'll have a bit of that , now that was different again, much better and faster still but after a while I come to the conclusion that it's too big (modern geometry and all that made it very long) so I start looking for another frame (I'll use all the other bits though), wanted a Soul to try steel but couldn't justify the gamble on how much they were changing hands for but stumbled across a 853 Genesis frame at the right price and local, bought it and swapped all the bits over (17" this time). Instantly noticed the extra springiness in the way of comfort in the frame and loved it , I'm now a steel convert but I still wanted (not needed) as soul, patience pays off as a few weeks ago I got one at sensible money so once again swapped bits over (I'm getting good at this now !). Well the genesis impressed me but I have to say the Soul is something else , I wasn't expecting any real difference but I was gobsmacked at how different 2 such similar frames could be . I'm now a happy man with a bike I feel totally comfortable with, each progression has improved both comfort,speed and confidence .
Sorry about the ramble but in my view (and backed up by a long and boring story) modern is much faster than retro.
Does it matter?, no are other people faster than me? , yes and I don't give a hoot as I've got a bike I enjoy riding and feel confident on .
Matthew


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:12 pm 
King of the DuckBoard
King of the DuckBoard

Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:30 pm
Posts: 21466
depends on fitness.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:58 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:21 am
Posts: 794
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
tintin40 wrote:
depends on fitness.


How? If you put someone on a slow bike and a fast bike with the same fitness...they're still going to go faster on the fast bike. It is far from all down to the rider.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:11 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:57 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Porto / Plymouth
So if I've understood correctly, a bike's speed (for a given rider fitness) is primarily down to its ability to smooth out the bumpiness of the trail?


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:14 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 11105
Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
A fitter rider will generally ride more actively, which may narrow the difference between a less efficient fork or no fork at all for example.

97 is not so long ago. There are comparable frame geometries and materials that should minimise the differences. It is only when you cap the price that things might fall in favour of the older bikes, and yes a recent second hand bike would be even closer but that wasn't the question either.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:35 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:57 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Porto / Plymouth
highlandsflyer wrote:
A fitter rider will generally ride more actively, which may narrow the difference between a less efficient fork or no fork at all for example.


I remember reading a shootout between a same brand, comparable 26, 27.5 and 29er in a US magazine and they concluded that the 29er is fastest but the 26er can be as fast in the hands of a skilled rider. The reviewer claimed that the 27.5 is actually the better of the three, as it seemed to have the benefits of a 26 and the 29er at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:50 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:33 pm
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Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
Image
http://mbaction.com/Main/News/Shootout- ... -5159.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: Is Retro faster?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:14 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:57 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Porto / Plymouth
That's the one.


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