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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
unkleGsif wrote:
Fitted or not fitted? In the box or without the box? NOS or just a blag?
Its pretty irrelevant really


G

It's not irrelevant to the poor schmuck who's paid top dollar for NOS only to open the package and find its a use item with half what you paid.


I assume he just means that nos doesn't really describe the condition of something. A never sold, boxed, brand new part (i.e. nos) could've been stored in a bike shop's cellar for years and could be tarnished/dried up/perished. The same part could've been purchased and fitted to a bike 20 years ago, cleaned and polished after every ride and could quite feasibly be in better condition than the nos item. NOS means nothing without an additional description of the condition.


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:32 pm 
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unkleGsif wrote:
Fitted or not fitted? In the box or without the box? NOS or just a blag?
Its pretty irrelevant really

G

Chopper1192 wrote:
It's not irrelevant to the poor schmuck who's paid top dollar for NOS only to open the package and find its a use item with half what you paid.


raidan73 wrote:
I assume he just means that nos doesn't really describe the condition of something. A never sold, boxed, brand new part (i.e. nos) could've been stored in a bike shop's cellar for years and could be tarnished/dried up/perished. The same part could've been purchased and fitted to a bike 20 years ago, cleaned and polished after every ride and could quite feasibly be in better condition than the nos item. NOS means nothing without an additional description of the condition.



Nope.... I just mean its irrelevant to me
If I buy something that's never been out of its box, its because I want to use it, wear it out, get it oily... I couldn't give a f f f fade away what a "collector" or nerd thinks


G


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:42 pm 
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unkleGsif wrote:


Nope.... I just mean its irrelevant to me
If I buy something that's never been out of its box, its because I want to use it, wear it out, get it oily... I couldn't give a f f f fade away what a "collector" or nerd thinks


G


Fair enough.


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:45 pm 
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It's not irrelevant. If you're interested in using it then why pay for NOS when used but genuinely mint or unmarked might cost half as much?


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:24 pm 
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For those who skipped it the first time...

pete_mcc wrote:
Lets apply the condom analogy:

Sealed and fresh in packet - new
Sealed in packet from 5 years ago - NOS
Fitted to see what it looks like but not actually used - used
Fitted and used, but only briefly - used
...you get the idea!

Why do we not apply the same to bike parts.


...or is that too easy?


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:00 pm 
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How about-
nos(with added marks.)


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:21 am
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Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Chute55uk wrote:
shogun wrote:
Chute55uk wrote:
buy a stem from ebay that comes in a box, only fitted to see what its like, dont like it take it off and list it in the fs section..


That description matches plenty of stuff sold as new, in any shop, anytime. Buyer would never know in most cases.

well.. no. shops dont buy their stock from ebay ( as a rule). the point being if a shop advertises and sells something as new then its exactly that. its jubject to the trades description act, sales of good act, consumer trading laws ect. Lets say they buy a saddle from a wholesaler and a customer wants to try it out so the shop fits it to the customers bike, the customer sits on it decides they dont like it and the shop takes it off again. its still new as they have not sold it yet but it may be listed as shop soiled if for example there was a spanner mark. if the customer buys it rides it down the road then brings it back and the store decides they will swap it, by law it cannot be described as new.
Im sure there are unscrupulous shops that would but we certainly diddnt.


Well I disagree, hardly unscrupulous most shops will have shelves/draws full of stems that have been test fitted for bike fits, saddles removed from new bikes, tyres swapped at purchase etc on and on, its been going on since day dot and plenty of stuff considered to be NOS 20 years down the track likely fits EXACTLY that description, especially if its 'NOS without packaging' its almost guaranteed to be test fitted in the past. If there is nothing obvious to show its been fitted, as if any shop is going to do themselves out of a few dollars and say it is 'shop soiled'.


Its all a big load of bollocks.


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:30 am 
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...which is precisely why people have such a disdainful opinion of a lot of shops/dealers :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:12 am 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
It's not irrelevant. If you're interested in using it then why pay for NOS when used but genuinely mint or unmarked might cost half as much?


Oh my god Chopper, will you let it lie...

I am saying despite whatever badge anyone else wants to put on something, if its the right part, at the right price, and I need it for whatever reason, then I will consider buying it.... its my bloody money, and its not up to you to educate me otherwise.
I couldn't give a rats arse if someone wants to say that its been in an hyperbaric bloody chamber since 1991, if it meats those criteria, then fine.
NOS to me is a meaningless badge that people use to demand more money from gullible shmucks with no common sense and too much money.... it doesn't interest me.... do you get it?

Maybe I should have pointed out that the sum total of the "NOS" parts that I have bought is £30..... not exactly a bank breaking amount is it, although I am genuinely grateful for your interest in my finances


You will no doubt have another (last) comment, however I wont. I commented earlier in the thread earlier about getting sucked into pointless conversations
My wife often refers to this place as get-a-life.com..... maybe she is right


End


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 Post subject: Re: when is nos not nos?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:26 am
Posts: 710
Location: Kuala Lumpur
NOS is as useless or as useful as any other descriptive. Regardless what you think NOS means or should mean, others will have a different idea and may or may not choose to use the term with genuine intent.

Last week I paid top dollar for a high quality vintage fine bone English tea trio (cup/saucer/plate) described as "In mint condition. No signs of use, as new. Bright and fresh as new, Fantastic condition". It came with two aged/discoloured hairline cracks and knife marks from previous use.

A while ago i bought a Cinder Cone described as "Superb, really is good condition, all original". I asked for better pics than the vague ones shown in the advert but seller didn't respond. I bid anyway as i live abroad and wanted to secure a steel Kona in my size within a narrow time frame (probably against my better judgement but it looked good in the pictures and due to my circumstances decided to run the risk of trusting the seller's description knowing full well i was at the mercy of the seller's integrity - or lack of it). The bike arrived with so much corrosion from stone damage to the paint around the rear triangle and fork and left to rust that i have no choice but paint the frame if i want it looking anything like acceptable. Shame as i cherish originality. That's not what i call "superb" or "really good".

The above items were not NOS but I suppose my point is that NOS - no matter what we think it means - is no more reliable a term as any other, or as the person using it. If i can't trust "mint" then i probably can't trust "NOS" either. It's always 'buyer beware' no matter what the description says.


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