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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:15 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 2366
Location: The Cave of Shame
I can't believe that 'coach' anyone worthy of that name shouldn't be that ignorant. Drawing parallels with skiing - if you sign up for private lessons you expect your ability to be measured and improved regardless of the age of your kit as long as its serviceable. It's not unusual for people who grow up skiing to keep the same kit for ages - mtb'ing is no different.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:30 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:18 pm
Posts: 3798
Location: Staffordshire
What are the tyres on your Saracen? I did two laps of Follow the Dog on Cannock yesterday. I averaged 45 minutes per lap with the second one slightly quicker than the first.

I was passed by one much younger guy who, to be fair was very quick on his modern. The rest of the people I saw, I was overtaking. One bloke even laughed at my bike (or me!) right up until the next climb!

My Saracen is older than yours.

On the downside, I bet they weren't hurting like I was at the end! I haven't tried one ever, but I already know those modern bikes are more comfortable and forgiving than mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:38 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 1:04 pm
Posts: 21
The tyres are Specialized Turbo ATB. They're quite narrow - I think they're 559x23 (26"x1.0"). They're also flat in that picture! It's quite difficult to get equivalent tyres nowadays. I know Schwalbe listed a Durano in that size a couple of years ago, but I don't think it ever materialised. I run some Michelin slicks (Advanced Wild Run'R...?) which are 559x28 on a recumbent, and I've been quite impressed by those.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:30 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:13 pm
Posts: 2574
Location: The Cock Inn, Tillett, Herts
Old Steel MTB geometry, especially from the mid 90's, was pretty well dialled in and even fully rigid frames today - that is the ones that remain from custom builders - differs very little from that time. As aforementioned It's had to change.to accommodate suspension, but as far as rigids go the tastiest geometry recipe was nailed nearly 2 decades ago.

Your 'coach' it a narrow minded fool, and I say that as a coach myself. I'd far rather a young lad with talent on an old Saracen that a wealthy boy with two left feet on the latest 6 inch depleted uranium framed rig funded by Daddy - I know who I think will be quicker straight away. Indeed, there's Adams good argument for learning all the basic and fundamental control skills before jumping on any kind of squidger.

Go find another coach who doesn't have an inferiority complex.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 2:03 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:51 pm
Posts: 314
Well I've ridden a 8" travel bike round sherwood pines and didn't have to get out of the seat or even have to stop pedalling over obsticals. My rigid saracen was completely different, hanging off the bike everywhere, hopping, pedalling skidding and all sorts to keep it on line. My current Marin, (retro with 100mm travel) is bang in the middle, slightly slacker head angle with the forks but still a 130mm stem and flat bars, just wider than usual is perfect for my riding.

The way I see it is old skool bikes and riders ride hell of a lot different, just watch videos on YouTube comparing old to new.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:19 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:10 am
Posts: 4756
Location: Heathfield, East Sussex
Raleighracer wrote:
Well I've ridden a 8" travel bike round sherwood pines and didn't have to get out of the seat or even have to stop pedalling over obsticals. My rigid saracen was completely different, hanging off the bike everywhere, hopping, pedalling skidding and all sorts to keep it on line. My current Marin, (retro with 100mm travel) is bang in the middle, slightly slacker head angle with the forks but still a 130mm stem and flat bars, just wider than usual is perfect for my riding.

The way I see it is old skool bikes and riders ride hell of a lot different, just watch videos on YouTube comparing old to new.


Yeah, but which was the most fun?

I've blasted over ground on a crosser that I had to carefully pick a line over on a trials rig; exhilerating, but no skill involved other than hanging on for dear life with a maniacal grin on me fizzog!

Each to their own...8)


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:22 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:36 pm
Posts: 16743
Location: Yorkshire, England
Which part of Sherwood Pines needed suspension ?


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:42 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 7:13 pm
Posts: 2574
Location: The Cock Inn, Tillett, Herts
Who on Earth would want to ride an 8" bike at the Pines? This like driving a HUMVEE to church - sure, it'll do the job, but is an utter waste of machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:47 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 26149
Location: Moomin Valley
fire road bicycle - super fast!

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Retrobike geometry
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 7:28 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:44 am
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver
As someone who likes older bikes, but is totally in touch with current trends, it's the bar and stem combo of the 'fireroad race' bikes from BITD that is completely dated for most people these days. Sure you can rip around Follow The Dog, Sherwood Pines etc on something from 1990 and there not be much of a lap time difference, but as soon as you go to even a moderately technical area such as Stile Cop on Cannock Chase and try ripping down the Red run and you'll notice the short comings. You could run a shorter stem and risers on an older bike, but be aware that many were designed around stems the length of King Dong's schlong, so will have short top tubes. A 19" frame from 1990 will have a top tube length between 22 and 23" at the most. My 19" Chromag frame has a 24" top tube.

Head tube angles are often slacker these days, but whether that is a good thing, or a bad thing will depend on the trails that you ride.


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