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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Neil wrote:
[I'm a big fan of perfectly decent and workmanlike. If I was an elite cyclist, no doubt I'd seek to kit out everything I have / use in top-end kit, but I'm not and I don't - nor ever have done.

I'm sure you're not. But that puts you squarely in the minority of cyclists ('cyclists' as in riders who choose to ride for the enjoyment as oppsoed to those who would rather drive but cant for some reason). The clear majory want the best kit they can afford, and wouldn't settle for 105 if their wallet would stretch to Ultegra.

As much as I applaud the possible resurgance of Suntour, basing their entire European marketing strategy on the spending power of a bloke called Neil who is happy to stick with what he's got for the time being is perhaps a touch risky.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
Neil wrote:
[I'm a big fan of perfectly decent and workmanlike. If I was an elite cyclist, no doubt I'd seek to kit out everything I have / use in top-end kit, but I'm not and I don't - nor ever have done.

I'm sure you're not. But that puts you squarely in the minority of cyclists ('cyclists' as in riders who choose to ride for the enjoyment as oppsoed to those who would rather drive but cant for some reason). The clear majory want the best kit they can afford, and wouldn't settle for 105 if their wallet would stretch to Ultegra.


I think that's a stretch - the clear majority - in terms of money to be made from cycles and parts, don't spend on Ultegra. Perhaps you mean the majority of enthusiasts - but enthusiasts are a rather trivial demographic.

Chopper1192 wrote:
As much as I applaud the possible resurgance of Suntoru, basing their entire European marketing strategy on the spending power of a bloke called Neil who is happy to stick with what he's got for the time being is perhaps a touch risky.


As healthy as my ego is, I doubt Suntour, nor anybody else is basing their business strategy on either my inane ramblings, nor the posturing of people in forums. If you think enthusiasts are a significant demographic for somebody looking to make money out of cycling / bikes / parts, you'd be a boutique vendor with some true kudos. Otherwise, whilst margins may be better on elite kit, I suspect the numbers - the true weight of numbers and money, isn't made there.

But perhaps I'm wrong - perhaps Shimano make all their money on XTR and Ultegra, and all the rest is just drip feeding until they can get their customers to mainline.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Yes, I suspect you're quite right. The price difference between, say, the current Deore Shadow and the XTR mechs, to use an example, is vast and does not reflect the additional engineering or more exotic materials in the posher kit. The deveoplement has already been paid for, due to Shimano's policy of tricking down technology and features year-on-year, and the cost difference between manufacturing the 2 items will be negligible. One has sealed bearing jockeys, one has an alloy parellelogram link while one has steel, differences too minor to commercially justify the significantly different price.

Perhaps youre the sensible one, while saddo's like me fling money at the altar of almighty sexiness for no appreciable gain.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
Yes, I suspect you're quite right. The price difference between, say, the current Deore Shadow and the XTR mechs, to use an example, is vast and does not reflect the additional engineering or more exotic materials in the posher kit. The deveoplement has already been paid for, due to Shimano's policy of tricking down technology and features year-on-year, and the cost difference between manufacturing the 2 items will be negligible. One has sealed bearing jockeys, one has an alloy parellelogram link while one has steel, differences too minor to commercially justify the significantly different price.

Perhaps youre the sensible one, while saddo's like me fling money at the altar of almighty sexiness for no appreciable gain.


That wasn't really my point.

My real point, is that statistically, enthusiasts are a trivial and insignificant demographic for such things across the piece. Perhaps different if we're talking about a company specialising in only boutique or elite level kit, but as a generalism, stands. Don't get me wrong, clearly there's plenty of money to be made off the ample backs of MAMILs, but all the same, the weight of numbers is probably found elsewhere than elite kit.

Especially when you consider the market globally.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:17 pm 
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But who would buy their kit if enthusiasts didn't? The middle ground don't care so long as it works boys won't buy it because they'll stick with whatever kit their bike came with until it falls off.

So who will?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:18 pm 
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The world is a big place. Having been around some of it I would suggest the majority of cyclists in the big place want to get from A to Z, and they mainly care about how long components will work and how easy they are to operate.

Suntour have a great reputation and I am sure there is a healthy market amongst those who remember them fondly as well as those looking for simple, durable and sensibly priced things.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:23 pm 
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That's always assuming it is indeed simple, effective and reasonably priced. They haven't given us any firm steer that it'll be any of those things.

I can't see them doing well. SRAM only it their big break because of the market share they gained when Shimano suddenly went all rapid rise and buyers defected in their droves, forcing Shimmy to back pedal sharpish. Unless they drop another major clanget it seems to me that simple, effective and reasonably pelt iced is already pretty well taken care of in the market.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Given the size of the market, how much of it do you think you need to gain to have a sustainable business? Add on top the existing good will towards your product from many in that business?

They will do just fine.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:41 pm 
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It will be intriguing to see what they bring out, and the cost, I certainly think they will have a strong appeal and do well, granted the stuff isn't going to be popping up OEM on £500 bikes or being run by the Pro teams, but neither is Nitto and they seem to be doing Ok no?

Also, you say 'enthusiasts' like to be an enthusiast you would only buy the latest and greatest, but ask a Randonneur 'enthusiast' what rear mech or chainset they are running and it ain't gonna be Di2 DA. The market for good-looking, high quality every day bikes is growing at the rate the market for OTP fixies is shrinking.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Personally I think it will depend on what OEM contracts they can / have secured.


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