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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:34 pm 
retrobike rider
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highlandsflyer wrote:
Neil wrote:
I always think of this retro question rather like onions that keep repeating on you. Either that or that film Memento.

And for some uncanny reason, this quote from a rather obscure film... "Look man, you can listen to Jimi but you can't hear him. There's a difference man. Just because you're listening to him doesn't mean you're hearing him."


Except, of course, that listening to Jimi is all about opening up; whereas assigning an arbitrary year to what is, after all, a 'vibe' is closing down.


AAAAyyymen! +1 for that


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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:38 pm 
retrobike rider
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cce wrote:
Chopper1192 wrote:
Forgive me, but I strensuosly disagree. Mass produced high performance full squidge didn't exist until the Renault F1 designed GiantnNRS system came along on the original XtC. Until that time there was no suspension system thatbisolated pedalling forces AND had had decent damping. The two were mutually exclusive until that point.



what about the john whyte designed Marin FRS system in 1997?


I hear that!


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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:42 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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highlandsflyer wrote:
Neil wrote:
I always think of this retro question rather like onions that keep repeating on you. Either that or that film Memento.

And for some uncanny reason, this quote from a rather obscure film... "Look man, you can listen to Jimi but you can't hear him. There's a difference man. Just because you're listening to him doesn't mean you're hearing him."


Except, of course, that listening to Jimi is all about opening up; whereas assigning an arbitrary year to what is, after all, a 'vibe' is closing down.


Or "hear"-ing Jimi - given the context of the quote, who was saying what to who and why...


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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:46 pm 
retrobike rider
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Neil wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:
Neil wrote:
I always think of this retro question rather like onions that keep repeating on you. Either that or that film Memento.

And for some uncanny reason, this quote from a rather obscure film... "Look man, you can listen to Jimi but you can't hear him. There's a difference man. Just because you're listening to him doesn't mean you're hearing him."


Except, of course, that listening to Jimi is all about opening up; whereas assigning an arbitrary year to what is, after all, a 'vibe' is closing down.


Or "hear"-ing Jimi - given the context of the quote, who was saying what to who and why...



The basic jist is that you need to open your mind and not just "experience" what you think you are hearing but feel it...


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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:49 pm 
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wookiee wrote:
Neil wrote:
Or "hear"-ing Jimi - given the context of the quote, who was saying what to who and why...


The basic jist is that you need to open your mind and not just "experience" what you think you are hearing but feel it...


When I said context, I was talking about the context of the scene in the film where the quote comes from, in terms of the subject here, as opposed to the quote purely within the context of this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:51 pm 
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So are we back to 'feel' and 'vibe' rather than a prescriptive timescale? Can reproduction be retro?
I would suggest that due to the aesthetic it can. I can appreciate beautifully made modern items that are copies of older unaffordable designs constructed using traditional skills. Are they retro?

As for bikes, I would suggest retro to me will be differently perceived by my son's and father's generation, tastes and interests.

Father in law has a 1953 Armstrong road bike which he considers modern!


Last edited by The History Man on Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:52 pm 
retrobike rider
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Neil wrote:
wookiee wrote:
Neil wrote:
Or "hear"-ing Jimi - given the context of the quote, who was saying what to who and why...


The basic jist is that you need to open your mind and not just "experience" what you think you are hearing but feel it...


When I said context, I was talking about the context of the scene in the film where the quote comes from, in terms of the subject here, as opposed to the quote purely within the context of this thread.


Well perhaps its easier for people to get you if you stay within the context of the thread rather than that of your inner thoughts....


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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:52 pm 
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You can't hear him if you don't listen.


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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:48 am 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
Forgive me, but I strensuosly disagree. Mass produced high performance full squidge didn't exist until the Renault F1 designed GiantnNRS system came along on the original XtC.



You mean the Horst Link system they used? Like FSRs, AMPs and GT LTSs among others which pre-date the NRS considerably?


Anyway I think '96-97 is a great cutoff point, take a bike from say '95 and one from '98 and compare them, absolutely worlds apart. Its arbitrary but it is a point where design shifted big time market wide.
Look at vintage motocross racing; its a bit like the Pre-1975 cutoff in vintage MX, the long travel bikes in 1975-76 changed the game hugely compared to everything up to '74. The example from vintage MX though is as the sport matures the line moves, and there will be support for later stuff as it goes from being simply outdated to being vintage.
Hence in vintage MX there are now classes in pre-60, pre-65, pre-70 (and evolutionary terms they're slow, weird and less reliable, a lot like early mountainbikes), then pre-75 representing the boom era of MX where there was huge tech change and massive uptake of the sport, pre-80 representing when travel got longer and bikes got a lot faster (much like say '98 onwards for us), and now we have people racing pre-85, pre-90 and soon pre-95 as time marches on and people want to relive their golden days.

Funnily enough there is a lot of lament in the pre-75 scene for the booming popularity of the pre-80 and evolution period classes...the same might happen here, in a few years there might be bulk early 2000s tragics fighting over M960 and Giant NRSs.
Probably the key difference is we don't have much organised vintage racing yet...


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 Post subject: Re: What is retro?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Retro is what ever I want it to be

I rarely care for others labels


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