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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:44 am
Posts: 461
Location: Vancouver
mkozaczek wrote:
walleater wrote:
I used to drool over Kleins BITD just like everyone else, but I don't really get the snobbishness. Manitou and Pace brought out way more innovative bikes around the same time, that still have features found in modern bikes (Aheadsets (albeit switched upside down), wider hubs, asymmetric rear triangles, wider bottom brackets, blah blah blah. Klein had an archaic steerer / stem combo but just bigger, annoying rear facing horizontal dropouts, crappy chainstay bridges that held mud etc etc. I wouldn't say no to a backfire Pinnacle but I just don't get the willy waving that comes with the brand.


Have you ridden a DBM??? How about an Adroit/Attitude? Having both bikes as frequent riders the Adroit outshines the DBM any day of the week. Lighter, more agile, stiffer, better climber. Maybe-maybe the DBM is more stable at high speed, but just by a bit.

I am a huge fan of DB and think he had some great innovations and was way ahead of his time. Agreed on the hub axle length, BB length YES. DB didn't innovate the aheadset BTW, don't know where you're getting that notion from. But his bikes are not as exciting to ride as a Klein, plain and simple.

However saying that Klein had this archaic headset is very ignorant. Have you seen a modern Cannondale, Specialized??? Have you looked at their headsets?? What do they remind you of???

On another note Klein was building Aluminum mountain bikes on a production scale when DBM was cranking out 50-60 a year and Pace was a word used to describe speed and velocity, not the name of a bike company. So to say they didn't lead innovation in the Al frame bike market is simply ignorant.


I've ridden an Attitude BITD. It was OK if you like having your teeth rattled out. I much preferred my boring Specialized M2 Team Ed with Bontrager Competition forks. A softer ride but still more than fast enough.

It was Pace that had an (inverted) aheadset style stem / steerer. Yep I've wrenched at a Cracknfail dealership fairly recently and can't recall any huge quill stems.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:27 pm
Posts: 988
Location: Devon
Quote:
But, saying that those two are just as good and supporting it with incorrect information is an argument I won't back down from.


But I'm not saying that am I?

I'm saying that it suits my needs better, offers 90% of the ride quality of the other models and offer some significant real world benefits by having non-propriety parts, I'm not saying that it's 'just as good' I'm saying that for me it is better.

I think you just don't agree with me, and that's fine, I'm happy to disagree, it makes life interesting :D


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:41 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:24 am
Posts: 7561
Location: Manchester
If the seatclamp cracking wasn't a problem then why was it the first thing that Trek changed?
It was a design fault. Making the early Trek models the best ones to buy to ride.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:02 am 
BoTM Winner / PoTM Winner
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:44 pm
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Rampage wrote:
If the seatclamp cracking wasn't a problem then why was it the first thing that Trek changed?

Money

Read the thread


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:07 am 
retrobike rider
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Location: Manchester
hollister wrote:
Rampage wrote:
If the seatclamp cracking wasn't a problem then why was it the first thing that Trek changed?

Money

Read the thread


lol
This thread?
I fell asleep posting that and when it posted there was an extra 2 pages!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:12 am 
BoTM Winner / PoTM Winner
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:44 pm
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Location: norcal
Shame, you could have just waited and learned.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:13 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:24 am
Posts: 7561
Location: Manchester
hollister wrote:
Shame, you could have just waited and learned.


I didn't know it was going to go silly overnight.
Should have realised though as 'klein' was in the thread title.
Please forgive me.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 1665
Location: Glasgow
mkozaczek wrote:
Well, I won't debate what someone prefers. Some people prefer a 318i to an M3 or whatever and that's fine. But, saying that those two are just as good and supporting it with incorrect information is an argument I won't back down from.

A 318 is better at not costing so much, better at saving fuel and better at not being stolen to name just a few.

People judge how 'good' something is according to their needs, not anyone else's. Obviously an M3 is more powerful and faster but that's not to say everyone judges on the same basis.

I have an 03 Attitude which you think is shite. I will buy a 98 Mantra Race at some point which you will also think is shite. I have no real interest in a 91 Attitude in Dolomite colours because for one I don't like the colour scheme and two at the price of one I could buy other bikes/things which I'd be happier with.

There's no definitive method of quantifying how 'good' anything is, despite your protestations. How fast? yes, How light? yes. How 'good'? Nope.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:00 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:19 pm
Posts: 3092
Location: Runcorn, cheshire.
i love these threads, very interesting & entertaining.
from a personal point of view i had a dolomite attitude.
i found the paint jobs really sold the bikes.
pre trek / post trek ?
couldn't give a toss my self.
life's too short to argue about bikes, just get out & ride them.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:42 am 
Geoff Capes
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Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:33 pm
Posts: 956
Location: On my laptop somewhere..
I'll be very interested to see what the opinions are on the two Pulses I have in the stable in say, 5/10 years time. The distinction between them being made by Trek & not Gary will always be firm but interest and appreciation of them will be based on how they ride etc not their badge or heritage..

I have mixed feelings as to whether or not I aspire to own a MC1 or MC2. I haven't ridden one and riding is key to defining how 'good' a bike is and that's a matter for personal experience and taste. I'm curious that's for sure.

Sounds like comparing the two is like comparing Apples and Oranges. :facepalm:


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