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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:38 pm 
retrobike rider
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Hey, some of you need to change your glasses. Get the good old fashioned rose coloured ones. You almost sound like you prefer and are backing up modern bikes :eek:

Remember this is a Retro site. Only vintage, Retro, classic is in. I think some of you are starting to forget that in your old age ;-)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:44 pm 
Retro Guru
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Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
cce wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:

I will say again, in my view the average mid range modern bike is heavier.



It's also stronger, stops better and more capable in a wider range of conditions


Can we have some weights up of mid range moderns? I have no clue.....

Also the "wider range of conditions" to me excludes things like touring with a mix of road and off-road; just my opinion but I think others may share the view modern MTBs cover for a "wider range of trail centers". Horses for courses.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:45 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:13 pm
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Location: Skipton
This topic always makes me laugh :lol:

I seem to remember weights dropping in a big way around 1993 although this was down to some very light components (bars, saddles, rims etc) that turned out to be made of mince. Just the same as today, if you wanted light weight and strength/quality you had to pay through the nose for it.

My 1989 Saracen Tufftrax was around 30lb where as my 2009 Orange 5 is around 28lb. I bet an entry level hardtail (like the Tufftrax) would still be around the 30lb mark, and that's with suss forks, disc brakes etc.

35lb full suss bikes with 160mm travel are not the norm and are not meant to be riden on epic all dayers. I got a full suss GT XCR4000 in 1999 and that was around 36lb and that was meant to be an all-rounder!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
cce wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:

I will say again, in my view the average mid range modern bike is heavier.



It's also stronger, stops better and more capable in a wider range of conditions


I certainly agree with that.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:53 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader

Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 6980
Location: Bristle
Woz wrote:
cce wrote:
highlandsflyer wrote:

I will say again, in my view the average mid range modern bike is heavier.



It's also stronger, stops better and more capable in a wider range of conditions


Can we have some weights up of mid range moderns? I have no clue.....

Also the "wider range of conditions" to me excludes things like touring with a mix of road and off-road; just my opinion but I think others may share the view modern MTBs cover for a "wider range of trail centers". Horses for courses.



In "mountain biking" conditions of all kinds, the only places I find an old bike to be genuinely faster are climbs and fireroads.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:07 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
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Location: Moomin Valley
what money are we talking for 'mid-range'?

This weighs in at 31.5lbs without pedals - £1169.99

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... deoverview

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:20 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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My niggles with the bike above would be the Avid brakes - do they still use plastic pistons? And the bushes look a little weedy for my personal tastes.

If one landed on my front door, I wouldnt kick out straight away.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Location: The Cock Inn, Tillett, Herts
Mid range? In proper MTB terms (as opposed to Argos specials) that's a budget full squidger.

I can reassure you that Avid brakes are still crap.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Here's an £1,100 hardtail Marin that weighs 28.2lbs... really Marin? Really? Does nearly 20 years of development really lead to something that's more expensive (allowing for inflation) and considerably heavier than a my steel Kona, despite using aluminium and plastic? Agreed it'll be a little stronger and have more travel, but the brakes won't be much better than my retro HS33s.
Image

And here's an £1,100 HT Giant that weighs 29.6lbs and is hailed for it's lightness! Amazing.

This is a better offering from Cannondale, at 25lbs. And here's a Boardman that's got it right. We all know it's possible, and we all know these rigs are tougher than they used to be, but they COULD be so much more.

Image

The point is not just that modern bikes seem heavier, but that they COULD be cheaper and lighter than they are (and shout about it), especially considering how far materials tech has moved on. I'd have thought 24lbs should be the low-mid-range for HTs by now, and £1k should easily get you an aluminium crosscountry HT in the 20-22lb range.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Location: The Cock Inn, Tillett, Herts
There is perhaps some truth in what you say, but you pick a bad example to illustrate it. New Marins are eye wateringly expensive when compared spec for spec with its rivals, and not one of their current range can be described as exceptional, never mind class leading. These days they're pretty mundae, trading off the name.

The problem with price in the last 3 or 4 years is one of exchange rate. About 2010 bike prices jumped enormously, mainly due to the pound weakening against foreign currencies, and with most bikes being made abroad the prices have risen sharply to reflect this. Its not really a case of the manufacturers trying to deliver less while asking for more, its Worlds economics.

Bordman get the weight right, but their steep geometry, stretched cockpit is living in the apst and in terms of performance they're good, but by and large lagging behind their rivals. A lot of bling for the buck, but chrome don't get you home. A smattering of XT or X9 is very sexy, but meaningless when a rivals Deore equipped bike rides better for similar money then it's meaninglys badge snobbery.

I'm lucky (or unlucky, depending on how rabid a Retrobike fan you are) to work in the industry and I get to try dozens of different modern bikes each year, each one in the £600+ bracket, no SportSoccer £99 specials. Like the old days, some are dire, some are ground shakingly brilliant. But its clear from some of these comments that a lot of folk are basing their judgements on the spec sheets and not on how some of these modern machines actually ride and perform.


Last edited by Chopper1192 on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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