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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:40 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
There is perhaps some truth in what you say, but you pick a bad example to illustrate it. New Marins are eye wateringly expensive when compared spec for spec with its rivals, and not one of their current range can be described as exceptional, never mind class leading. These days they're pretty mundae, trading off the name.


Yeah that's a shame, I used to love them vs. Kona, and remember lusting after a Bear Valley SE when I should've really spent more time lusting after girls and boobies rather than blue anodised cylindrical cantis.

Re; Marin being a bad example, that's why I linked the Boardman and the Cannondale too - they're definitely in the right direction, all I'm saying is it'd be nice if they were achieving substantially more and shouting about what a good job they were doing.

It still gets to me that bike shops don't list the weight of their bikes right off the bat though. Considering sales people stand around for at least 2 hours/day, it doesn't take long to weigh your range and print out some labels saying "Guide weight: 27-28lbs for Medium, no pedals" < do that and you'll cover 90% of the stock in the shop for an hours' work.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:42 pm 
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I'm not sure how true it is, but Orange reckon no one is developing steel-tubing technology to a significant degree anymore so they're dropped steel in favour of alloy for their HTs. Shame.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
... I get to try dozens of different modern bikes each year ... some are ground shakingly brilliant.


Just out of interest, what's caught your eye then? Would be cool to try out some decent modern rigs. (you'll have guessed lightweight x-country is my thing; HT, little bit of front bounce)


RE: Steel, that's a shame, but it's understandable. I guess On-one have got about as far as we'll get anytime soon with the material, and I can understand those new to the sport who think "Steel? Yuk!", so Orange's decision makes sense. One day, when we crawl out of the mire of recession, I wonder if we'll see new and exciting bike industry developments. I'm after a sub-20lb steel framed bike for £500... :)


Last edited by samc on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:47 pm 
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Chopper1192 wrote:
I'm not sure how true it is, but Orange reckon no one is developing steel-tubing technology to a significant degree anymore so they're dropped steel in favour of alloy for their HTs. Shame.



That's cobblers (on orange's part). Reynolds have had two new tubesets out over the last few years, and Columbus are pushing back the boundaries of what's possible on wall thickness.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:50 pm 
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OK so this is super nerdy but I'm having a lazy Sunday morning. In 1989 I bought a Rockhopper Comp for 500ukp. I just ran 500ukp through an inflation converter to find out roughly what that equals in Canadian Dollars in 2013 (approx $1400). I then looked up what I can buy locally for that or less (not many shops list prices), and then looked up the weight of it:

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/relate ... alculator/
http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Cycling/G ... unisex.jsp
http://www.ghost-bikes.com/za/bikes-201 ... s/se-2970/
https://www.google.ca/search?q=13.3kg+i ... e&ie=UTF-8

Sooooo......today I can buy a bike that weighs under 30lbs for $200 less than I paid for my Rockhopper Comp, which from very distant memory weighed pretty well the same! But the Ghost has larger wheels, suspension fork, disc brakes, 30 gears and generally a better spec all round. Sorry but facts are facts!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Manufacturers aren't asking for more money for less are they?

As controversially demonstrated already and whether you find the criteria set for the test specious or not... in '94, £900 could get you a rigid steel bike that weighed 24lbs. These days an equivalent sum gets you a carbon framed hardtail with full suspension, disc brakes and a whole host of other modern guff in a package that weighs... 24lbs.

They're delivering considerably more technology with the associated performance benefits at a lighter weight and the same (albeit normalised) price point.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:10 pm 
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cce wrote:
Chopper1192 wrote:
I'm not sure how true it is, but Orange reckon no one is developing steel-tubing technology to a significant degree anymore so they're dropped steel in favour of alloy for their HTs. Shame.



That's cobblers (on orange's part). Reynolds have had two new tubesets out over the last few years, and Columbus are pushing back the boundaries of what's possible on wall thickness.

TBH I thought it seemed smelly when I read it.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:40 pm 
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You can go out and buy a very nice car for far less of your disposable income than you would pay back in 1960, in the UK at least.

It makes no sense to compare prices over time in the way put forward over and again. Bicycle prices are not linked to inflation in any way more than they are to mass production and market forces.

The fact is that mid range bikes back in the mid nineties had cantilever brakes and forks that were often simple and relatively light.

People now favour remote lock out, lock on grips, disc brakes, blah, blah, blah.

Certainly bikes are generally more capable once you escape the bottom drawer.

The reduction in frame weight offered by high tech manufacturing is but a small part of an equation that actually sees bikes weighing more generally.

I guess manufacturers could de-spec their bikes to reduce weight, but I think the pay off is not there in sales as very few buyers favour weight loss over features loss.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Someone quoted KB "light, strong, cheap. Pick two".

So, I want light and cheap please. Because of progress for £900, I'm expecting around 21 lbs please. I'm happy with a full rigid and even 1.95 tyres in either 26" or 29" and I don't want strong cos I'm a bit of a canal tow path rider.

Let's see those modern lightweight £900 rigs without the guff :wink:


Last edited by Woz on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:50 pm 
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walleater wrote:
... the Ghost has larger wheels, suspension fork, disc brakes, 30 gears and generally a better spec all round. Sorry but facts are facts!


It's a thousand pound bike (linky) that weighs a shade under 30 lbs! Oh wait, it doesn't come with pedals... let's say 31lbs then.

Nothing ringing alarm bells there?! £1k, 31lbs. No.

Quote:
very few buyers favour weight loss over features loss.


That's the problem - people think 30 gears will make them about a fifth faster than 24 gears. People are idiots.


Last edited by samc on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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