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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:30 pm 
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At the risk of sounding old and rose-tinted... remember looking at brochures that listed bike weights? Or going into a shop and being amazed at the 22lb label on the almost-affordable Orange?

I went into a Cannondale shop a few weeks back and a Giant shop today, and found that nothing had weights on, and when pressed the guy would grudgingly weigh the £1.2k bike and proudly say it weighed ... almost 30lbs.

30lbs?! What has happened to manufacturing and retail that's made mid-range bikes so heavy and over-engineered? It's weird. I told him I've built a 90s sub-24lb Kona for £300, and although clearly it wasn't as strong as the latest stuff, the only thing he could show me which matched the weight was £3.5k.

So a 19 year-old steel Kona weighs the same as a brand new carbon fibre Giant that costs 10 times the amount. Clearly the Giant has a few more gears, much better brakes, three times the amount of suspension travel, and isn't covered in crap, but still. It's a bit like finding the latest supercars aren't any faster 0-60 than your 1963 Morris Minor.

Maybe I am just getting old and whingey. Time for my bath.


Last edited by samc on Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:33 pm 
retrobike rider
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It's happened in cars. The Mark 1 Golf GTI is still the fastest made Golf GTI, as the new ones are so heavy


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:49 pm 
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We've been there before with this, and recently at that. There is no universal standard along manufacturers for quoting weight, and I the 90s it started to get silly with people quoting without pedals, tyres etc. giant deliberately don't quote a weight because there is no universal standard/method, and it can vary markedly from size to size anyway.

Sure, a modern AM rig may easily rip the scales at 35lbs ready to ride, but try finding a 20 year old bike as capable, never mind as capable AND lighter.

And the current Golf GTi is 25mph faster and 3 seconds quicker to 60 than the original...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:13 pm 
Lincs, East and South Yorks Deputy AEC
Lincs, East and South Yorks Deputy AEC
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thought they only made 2 golfs, the mk1 and 2...........;)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:18 pm 
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meh i have tried and didn't like a few current full sussers. i appreciate the better brakes but i wont use the extra travel and "extreme" radness of a lot of the current hefty beasts. My riding hasn't improved so paying a grand for a heavy thing that doesn't suit me is moot. (i was saving up for a new modern but life and bills have spent the small pile of savings, slightly disappointing but not earth shatteringly so)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:19 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Chopper1192 wrote:

Sure, a modern AM rig may easily rip the scales at 35lbs ready to ride, but try finding a 20 year old bike as capable, never mind as capable AND lighter.




I present my 1993 Zaskar, 24 point something or other lbs on the bike shops Park Tool scales and just as capable as anything I tested in 2011.

As for cars, its legislation that made them fat.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Exactly. Zaskar kicks butt, but even the mid-range stuff competes healthily. I haven't broken a frame yet, and I've owned plenty of modern bikes (that I haven't bothered listing; Specialized, Cannondale, blah blah blah), and ridden plenty of the World Cup downhill courses.

I can understand manufacturers not wanting to give accurate weights because of a bit of variation, but as a potential customer, a ballpark is all I'm after; even a no-brainer standard that said "28-30 lbs depending on size, pedals not included" would be helpful. If people want to alter specs like fork etc then they'll know what they're after, and will want to know weights even more, I'd have thought. It's just retail-led rather than customer-focused sale.

So I stand by the initial point. Obviously a decent modern bike may be superior in terms of strength and whatever (although I'm willing to bet my steel Lavadome will withstand more than the £1,500 carbon Giant I played with today), but it's frustrating that weight isn't as prioritised during manufacture or as transparently publicised at point of sale.

And who cares about Golfs, they're dull and slow no matter what; legislation can't be blamed for chubbiness. My Subaru's testament to that.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:32 pm 
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legrandefromage wrote:
Chopper1192 wrote:

Sure, a modern AM rig may easily rip the scales at 35lbs ready to ride, but try finding a 20 year old bike as capable, never mind as capable AND lighter.


Obviously a decent modern bike may be superior in terms of strength and whatever (although I'm willing to bet my steel Lavadome will withstand more than the £1,500 carbon Giant I played with today),

I'm 250lbs even and the £1500 Giant that is my main bike of the moment is not only more than up to the job of withstanding the stresses and strains, its one of the top 3 performing mountain bikes of any age at any price.

Properly hydroformed, the welded joints are thrice the surface area of the Lavadome, and made with a standard and consistency of production and material that couldn't be dreamed of as recently as the year 2000. I would suggest in a kg-to-failure test the lavadrone would crack(sic) first.


Last edited by Chopper1192 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:35 pm 
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Yep utterly

thats why i have on occasion passed gaggles of slow moving of AM full sussers (going up and down)in Epping on a hard tail retro pile of crap. right tools for the right job and all that.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:43 pm 
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taffy wrote:
Yep utterly

thats why i have on occasion passed gaggles of slow moving of AM full sussers (going up and down)in Epping on a hard tail retro pile of crap. right tools for the right job and all that.
I've passed gaggles of folk on boat-anchor retro's on a Lappiere AM rig, including some chap on a nice lookg olde Trek just this morning (red Trek steelie, mid 90's looking, 'hello' Sir if youre reading, I think you may live in the same village). Right tools for the job, and all that.

If someones bobbing up and down on a modern bikes its either a cheap and nasty, or they havent got a clue about setting up suspension, probably the latter these days. Fully floating suspension, such as Maestro or Pendbox, isolated the transmission from the suspension action half a decade ago or more.

Where have you guys been all this time?

Next you'll be extolling the virtues of leeches over penicillin. I mean, I love the old tin, the feel, the history, the differing design strands, the sheer nostalgia, but we wont be seeing the Athertons reverting to an early 90's Alpinstars in the hope of going quicker anythime soon.


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