Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:03 pm

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 342 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 ... 35  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:29 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1784
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
mikee wrote:
I was selling them to lovehoney.com


..do they sell an external bearing square taper interface BB by any chance?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:42 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 193
Location: Michigan, USA
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding - Round 10. Dedicated to Woz, Wookie, LGF, FC and the rest...

Yet the No minions sought release
for their right to be sans grease
and fought to have fair say,
so the RB bastions they did storm, until their views became the norm
and the thread still runs to this day.

:mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:47 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:03 pm
Posts: 11796
Location: Returning
Woz wrote:
mikee wrote:
I was selling them to lovehoney.com


..do they sell an external bearing square taper interface BB by any chance?


No but they seem to sell grease :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:48 pm 
Gold Trader
Gold Trader
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:28 pm
Posts: 3361
Location: The Admiral Benbow
oh dear what have i missed, 14 pages?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:50 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 2500
Location: West Sussex
Just bought a new tub-o-grease Friday I'M GREASING EVERYTHING !!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:51 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 193
Location: Michigan, USA
The Ballad of the Ungreased Taper (in 3 part harmony)

In the year 2013
Assembled here the uninformed,
In the day when their cranks were dry...
and a 'dollop" (or was it wallop?) was applied
to the drive and non-drive side,
so in RB hell they shall not fry.

Yet the No minions sought release
for their right to be sans grease
and fought to have fair say,
so the RB bastions they did storm, until their views became the norm
and the thread still runs to this day.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:31 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:45 pm
Posts: 5261
Location: Birmingham
OH DEAR, i have just converted from no grease to grease

now i was always an impressionable fence jumper

but having read this

http://206.75.155.18/kmr/crankbb.html

and this

http://206.75.155.18/kmr/bbcreak.html

i fear he is right

in particular this

The reason to lube the tapers is to prevent galling and fretting from occurring
during installation. Basically, what this IS is that while the machined tapers
of the Ti (or CrMo) spindle appear smooth to the naked eye or to the touch of your
fingers, when viewed under high magnifaction (like 1000x), they are actually
quite rough with peaks and valleys and sharp edges. When you're pressing the cranks on,
which are almost always aluminium and softer than the Titanium spindle,
the BB tapers are acting like minature files and removing small flakes
of aluminium from the crank tapers. These flakes then become trapped between
the crank & BB tapers, leading to an imperfect press-fit and are the MAIN source
of creaking noises.

For many decades, there has been an old wives tale unique to the bicycle
industry about greasing the spindle tapers being a major no-no and sure fire way
to over-install the cranks. This is a myth, pure and simple. Its only now that
crank & BB makers are doing their own R&D and correcting their manuals and
informing consumers and bike mechanics to lubricate the tapers. RaceFace manuals
state to do this now when originally they said not to do it, Shimano's master
bible for installing their parts say to do it (and they even ship the BB spindles now with
grease on the tapers already, ready to install), and the latest edition of the
Sutherlands manual says to lube the tapers.

You clean the tapers before applying the grease to remove any aluminum particles
that were removed from the crank tapers and have become trapped in place as the
cranks are installed. You use the grease (or anti-seize, either works, I use
a waterproof marine grease myself) to prevent galling and fretting when the
crankarms are installed (this is what causes the aluminum flakes to break off).

Contrary to popular belief, the crank/bb assembly of a bike is NOT a
friction-fit, nor is it really a press-fit... it is an INTERFERENCE-fit. What's
holding the cranks on is the plastic deformation of the metals involved. The
softer metal will deform around the harder metal (ever so slightly), and in
concert with the crank bolts, this holds the crankarm in place (once sufficient
deformation has taken place). It is NOT dependant on friction, nor will the
presence of grease prevent this deformation from taking place. The presence of
small particles of aluminum that were ground off the tapers by the galling and
fretting which occured from excessive friction during the installation process
(say, from a dry-fit assembly) however, can lead to an improper interference-fit
and the symptom of this, is the dreaded creaking whenever torque is applied to
the cranks.

This is galling & fretting is MORE likely to occur with BB spindles (Ti or CrMo)
which are machined rather than forged. MOST CrMo spindles are forged, because
its cheaper for the big companies (like shimano) to make MANY identical parts
this way. In the case of Ti BBs (and some aftermarket CrMo BBs), the spindles
are machined, which leaves a rougher surface on the tapers than forging. This
rough surface, which may appear smooth to your fingertips, is actually quite
abrasive to the aluminum tapers of your typical crankarm. If there's too much
friction when you install the aluminum cranks, galling & fretting occurs and
tiny pieces (usually too small to see with the naked eye) break off and become
trapped in places where you don't want them...

Any other questions?!?

So TKO or RSC i think


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:48 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1784
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
...the great debate must be over now. Grease it is.


Attachments:
churchilldv.jpg
churchilldv.jpg [ 19.58 KiB | Viewed 70 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:41 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:57 pm
Posts: 4074
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
I still had an unopened UN-55 box, so I opened it, took out the instructions and scanned the complete English page. Here it is :

Image

As you may notice, it doesn't mention grease on the tapers. The BB comes whith grease inside the axle bolt treads and the manual only mentions greasing the threads that connect it to the frame. but NOT on the tapers.


And sorry, but I can't let this one slide :

dyna-ti wrote:
So far were had reports from engineers[real ones not wannabees) .BMW was mentioned as was raf [rocketys etc] and British aerospace[my dad] add to this Sheldon brown himself

BMW and the RAF have their field of expertise. However it doesn't include BBs.
I'll take the word from someone who has done plenty of miles on bikes he maintains himself over that of any engineer who doesn't work for a bicycle component manufacturer.
My own experience (20 years of maintaining my own bikes, around 120K miles total) indicates that it doesn't matter one iota whether you grease them or not. Creaking is usually the result of sand/dirt on the tapers, not from lack of grease.

As for Sheldon Brown mentioning using grease, does he by any chance tell you to use a specific grease that you can coincidentally buy via his website?
After reading the chain cleaning article/commercial, I've learned to take his words with a grain of salt ... or rather a mountain of it. IMO he doesn't mind telling absolute nonsense if that enables him to sell a few more things.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:56 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1784
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
"As you may notice, it doesn't mention grease on the tapers. The BB comes whith grease inside the axle bolt treads and the manual only mentions greasing the threads that connect it to the frame. but NOT on the tapers."

That's because it's a BB Installation Instruction and not a Crank Installation Instruction. It doesn't say "Don't grease the tapers" either :wink: Check the link I posted earlier; it's from one of the very last reasonably decent square taper cranks Shimano made. Interesting that Shimano even launched the UN55 (LX or 105 level) but no square taper crank to match :( .


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 342 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 ... 35  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: adri.75, Bing [Bot] and 45 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group