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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:58 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 515
Location: Surrey
Communication could be better but clearly there are some language differences as well and the tone of emails gets all twisted, we all know that.

I would say that you have been enthusiastic on chasing, as we all would be, and you have caught someone who is up to their neck in work, reading between the lines. Answering strings of emails as far as they are concerned is yet another distraction from the work. Not your fault of course.

These sort of waits are very common with this sort of specialist work. You look back over Retrobike history and you will see complaints about many painters due to long waits and back logs. If you pull the frame from Martin then you start again. From what I have seen Martin's work is excellent and that is what is important here. It may take a few months but you will admire the work for many years to come. You will kick yourself if you get a quick job done badly.

I would suggest you figuratively shake hands and agree a new time-scale. Of course you want your frame but you are not going to get it quicker by moving it now.

Food for thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:36 pm
Posts: 1087
Location: The Netherlands
Well, just my two cents for this unfortunate situation:

I also have my frame over there for a new HLF paintjob, but the people who recommended Martin also warned me that he was very busy and it might take a long time... no problem because I sent the frame over for a "better late and perfect than soon and crappy" paintjob. Strange that they told you there was no waiting list, because when I sent my frame (or rather, had it delivered by some very friendly fellow Dutch retrobiker) there were already some 3 or 4 frames there from Dutch people waiting for a paintjob (and that was last december). They also told me Martin sometimes can be "rude" in his replies if you keep asking status updates ona weekly basis or so... I have no such problem to be honest, maybe because I e-mail him in German?

There have been some mistakes of course (saying there's no waiting list and then saying there is) and I'm not trying to defend anyone with this, just wanted to say the above because I knew this beforehand... and on the other hand, before I let Martin quote me for a paintjob I e-mailed the other well known painter and never heard anything since (it was three weeks before and that silence made me decide to send the frame over to Martin, because three weeks silence over a quote for a KLEIN paintjob from a forum member is also not-done in my perspective) ;-) But indeed, all it takes when something prevents you fro delivering on time is a clear message explaining the delay and an apology... no hard feelings then I guess. So that would have been the proper thing to do here.

Anyhoo, hope it all turns out well... I think both KLEIN painters here on this forum do an awesome job! It's got nothing to do with 'Klein's guide to annoy the world' but all with peoples attitude towards each other and how easily you get p*ssed off ;-)

Just my two cents...


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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:38 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 11106
Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
We have seen this so many times, also with frame builders.

It takes no time at all to put a status update on a website informing customers you have delays, and apologising in advance for any delay getting back to people as you are busy trying to catch up.

Saves ninety percent of the hassle.

If someone trading in whatever market chooses to be more polite/helpful to people who speak their language they should think twice about advertising their services abroad, no?


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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:19 am
Posts: 461
Location: The Netherlands
All I can say is that I had quite some Klein paint jobs done by Martin and his English is better then your German but still his emails are sometimes a bit unnecessary and he should just say it takes five months so anytime the frame is finished sooner its a plus.
BUT the work is very good, the paint itself is from an outstanding quality and most importantly... He will paint your bike, just have some patience dude. .


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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:12 pm
Posts: 4440
Location: Barry
For me its all about the end product. I havent studied his work but if hes the best i'd go with him even after the emails.

But why say 12 weeks if it isnt going to be 12?

& if you are not making enough money put your prices up!


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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 8000
CTK wrote:
For me its all about the end product. I havent studied his work but if hes the best i'd go with him even after the emails.

But why say 12 weeks if it isnt going to be 12?

& if you are not making enough money put your prices up!


In some ways I agree ..certianly martens wrk seems to be of a very high standard..his customer relations however seem to be the stuff of nightmares if the email timeline and comments are correct

the paint job is 50% of the experience and customer relations is the other. Having looked again at the email timeline the last comment was on dec 4 then no further communication till the 4th of feb and even then it was the customer contacting the business. there was 2 months in which Marten could have easily sent an update saying something like..i'm really sorry i know I said there was no queue and 12 weeks but things here have gotten so manic It may be a bit longer, can you email me so we can discuss it or give me a ring

How many times have we this seen from frame builders and painters..the go into our market place with open arms...then get a lot of work and money from us...then when they get more work than they can cope with they start letting down the customers with bad work,time delay and for the first time I've seen....start lashing out at the customer like it's their fault?

I'd be interested to see Martens input to this thread..this is a community that reccomends good and highlights the bad and given how much Marten has got from this site in the last 12 months in particular I would suggest he needs to resolve this fast and very ammicably


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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:30 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Prague
im little bit unsure about the outing to be honest.
I can see the Ashleys frustration, but all that happened was unkind communication and some time lost... so far no "real" damage
I dont know if international and public crucifiction equals the situlation.
I dont think Martin has to explain anything to "us".. Its between him and Ashley.. To me he wasnt communicating well with the client,
but there can be million things: personal problems, family, health that can be part of the reason..
another thing to learn from..
peace.

jan


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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:56 pm 
eBay Outing Master
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Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 8000
CAPIN wrote:
im little bit unsure about the outing to be honest.
I can see the Ashleys frustration, but all that happened was unkind communication and some time lost... so far no "real" damage
I dont know if international and public crucifiction equals the situlation.
I dont think Martin has to explain anything to "us".. Its between him and Ashley.. To me he wasnt communicating well with the client,
but there can be million things: personal problems, family, health that can be part of the reason..
another thing to learn from..
peace.

jan


actually yes he does..as a community how often have we tried to cover ours and our other members backs by reporting when a supplier goes bad..we have threads with good and bad painters and within those paint jobs how they deal with you as a customer too

they take your money they are accountable, they get the positive of business through reccomendation through here then they should also accept we share when it goes wrong too

as to blaming the customer for the painters problems...not something I would see as a positive..customer care..something more business's seem to be failing on and a real bug bear for me


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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:11 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:30 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Prague
I agree with you. its good to share experiences in community. But my point was that luckily the problem is/was about communication.. not actual work.
No lost frame, no damaged frame, no dispute over money, nobody stole anything..
Its also possible that if i was in Ashleys situlation myself, i would be even more pissed :)
i dont know.. in any case the whole thing could go wrong much worse.
Now its all just feelings and time..


Last edited by CAPIN on Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Klein Painters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:29 pm 
B.o.T.M. Winner / Feature Bike
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:26 pm
Posts: 6191
Location: Tilting at windmills and shouting at the rain.
Wondered when you would show up again.


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