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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:53 pm 
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/bangs head on desk

Yes, their frames are made in Taiwan or China. But they don't just skim through a catalogue and go, yup, we'll have 20,000 of those in red.

The idea that less work goes into a modern frame than went into one 20 years ago is, frankly, absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:07 pm 
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So made to order from china as I said? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Are you being deliberately obtuse now?


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:16 pm 
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No


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:18 pm 
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I've always loved* the assumption that under no circumstances could a Chinese welder have even a fraction of the ability of a bloke in Yorkshire or California :D


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:22 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Chances are the welder in china has done more joints this week than most boutique builders will do in their career

Practice makes perfect...


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:27 pm 
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The love and care taken on a bike manufactured in-house in a factory or workshop in England or America means a LOT more than mere technical ability.

Sure, taiwan and China probably have great technicians and workmen, but they're making stuff 'to order', as the workers get their wage, and large Corps give their designs and orders to be built to specifications by people who don't really care whether the order is from Trek or Specialized or Halfords. There are probably Robots which can build and make stuff as well as any Human.

I'd be willing to pay a premium for stuff made "In-House" rather than out sourced any day of the week. In fact, I do this with my clothing, boots, watches and other goods and precision instruments - as long as I am able and they are available.

So yes, Chinese welders are as good if not better than any Englishman or American, but there are probably Robots as good if not better.

Anyway this is straying from the topic.

Modern bikes, in general, are Uglier than those built ten years and more ago. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:35 pm 
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ibbz wrote:
Sure, taiwan and China probably have great technicians and workmen, but they're making stuff 'to order', as the workers get their wage, and large Corps give their designs and orders to be built to specifications by people who don't really care whether the order is from Trek or Specialized or Halfords.


Not entirely. Certainly there's probably not the same emotional connection between welder and product as in a one-man custom shop, but what matters is how well it's put together. The big brands take quality control very seriously (because they don't want shoddy product), so the people making them certainly care on that level -- no factory wants a reputation for making crappy frames. And clearly the nationality of the welder doesn't impact upon the pride they take in their own work.

ibbz wrote:
There are probably Robots which can build and make stuff as well as any Human.


Stuff yes. Bike frames no. Supermarket BSOs might be robot-welded, anything resembling a proper bike is welded together by a person.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:43 pm 
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MikeD wrote:
ibbz wrote:
Sure, taiwan and China probably have great technicians and workmen, but they're making stuff 'to order', as the workers get their wage, and large Corps give their designs and orders to be built to specifications by people who don't really care whether the order is from Trek or Specialized or Halfords.


Not entirely. Certainly there's probably not the same emotional connection between welder and product as in a one-man custom shop, but what matters is how well it's put together. The big brands take quality control very seriously (because they don't want shoddy product), so the people making them certainly care on that level -- no factory wants a reputation for making crappy frames. And clearly the nationality of the welder doesn't impact upon the pride they take in their own work.

ibbz wrote:
There are probably Robots which can build and make stuff as well as any Human.


Stuff yes. Bike frames no. Supermarket BSOs might be robot-welded, anything resembling a proper bike is welded together by a person.



Well, what matters to me isn't solely how well it's put together, it's that PLUS more - as I explained, and I put far more worth on these things. I would never pay the same for a bike produced in China and one produced in England.

But let's agree to disagree, this isn't an exact science and opinion differ.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Van Nicholas;

Image

Image

Image

Very nice and Modern!

(not sure about the spokes on the 2nd)

(the soft tail, I quite like it)


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