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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:15 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Posts: 4074
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Just look for a modern with fairly slack geometry and drop the fork. That'll give you an excellent basis for building a modern XC bike with a nice retro touch.

I started with this :

Image

and turned it into this :

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:22 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Location: Moomin Valley
shogun wrote:
legrandefromage wrote:
The image of off-road cycling is now motocross without the motor - as I mentioned before, this gives out the wrong impression and doesnt really promote cycling in a positive way - full face helmets, pads etc - thats what is 'ugly'. It is damaging the image long term.



Either the UK is 10 years behind the rest of the world or you're out of touch, LGF.

By far the biggest segment in mountain bikes here, aside from the MTBSOs, is enduro XC and multisport, closely followed by XC trail riding. Things like XC lycra, deep coverage 'All Mountain' helmets and all manner of drab semi-baggy trail attire are the image here. The image of a mountain biker at this end of the world is someone more likely to be sipping from one of those anodised water bottle than a Monster Energy can. What you're saying was true enough in maybe 1999-2005. I think 45 year olds with H.R. Gieger inspired skinsuits and 29ers on their SUV are probably doing greater damage because once the event promoters flake and the mid-lifers move on the sport will tank, sprint XC is dead and junior ranks are thinning. To an extent I agree that kids getting into DH, dirtjumping, BMX park etc then bugging out when they discover chicks and party drugs is a contributor too but I think the sport chasing yuppie bucks is the worst influence.


JUst visit a UK trail centre at the weekend and they'll all be there. £6k bikes hanging off £50 bike racks hanging off £35k cars.

Makes oi laaaaaafff.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:26 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:07 pm
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Location: muddy fields, usually
Wow, you really have got a chip on your shoulder about people who ride modern, don't you?


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:32 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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gradeAfailure wrote:
Wow, you really have got a chip on your shoulder about people who ride modern, don't you?



No, not at all, its what it has become that gets me upset - I refer to an earlier post:
Quote:
Work as a mechanic in a bike shop - just 6 months should do it, then you may change your outlook.

Its not really a 'hate' of modern bikes, I suspect its more to do with the faceless business practices of what is now a dwindling side of the industry. The companies exist for no other reason than to make money, that is all.

Very very few companies may have other motives but its these bland megacorps that have kind of taken the innocence out of cycling. Its not even rose tinted, why do you feel that you 'need' suspension? Its because its everywhere and the magazines tell you that you 'need' XYZ for this season. Bikes look great to the casual rider and to keep up with Johnny, they must have that XYZ or at least some similar. Its just basic marketing.

Cycling as a whole can be very very simple. Simple doesnt sell, 'tech' sells, the latest trumped up must have sells. Just look at Apple products as a prime example. A fairly stale market suddenly shaken to its core by one product and now everyone has to have that product or something similar whether its needed or not.

Its great to have the newest, sure, there will always be those that want it (and perhaps have fallen under the spell) but there are those that visited that country, enjoyed its hospitality and have now gone 'home'.

RetriBIKE is to many that 'home'. Simple bikes, easy to maintain, fun to use with any headaches easy to repair or replace.



*EDit - dont forget though - I'm just an arse with a keyboard too.


Last edited by legrandefromage on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:40 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:28 am
Posts: 274
Location: Sheffield
My modern bike might be modern, but it hasn't changed me or my attitudes. I don't care a jot for speed. In fact, given a lovely steep trail covered in boulders I prefer to roll it slowly, and savour it. Speed isn't my thing, and nor is jumping. My few attempts to jump or land drop offs have almost always ended in tears, so if I can't roll it I don't do it. The full susser is, for me, about comfort first.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:26 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:07 pm
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Location: muddy fields, usually
legrandefromage wrote:
gradeAfailure wrote:
Wow, you really have got a chip on your shoulder about people who ride modern, don't you?



No, not at all, its what it has become that gets me upset - I refer to an earlier post:
Quote:
Work as a mechanic in a bike shop - just 6 months should do it, then you may change your outlook.

Its not really a 'hate' of modern bikes, I suspect its more to do with the faceless business practices of what is now a dwindling side of the industry. The companies exist for no other reason than to make money, that is all.

Very very few companies may have other motives but its these bland megacorps that have kind of taken the innocence out of cycling. Its not even rose tinted, why do you feel that you 'need' suspension? Its because its everywhere and the magazines tell you that you 'need' XYZ for this season. Bikes look great to the casual rider and to keep up with Johnny, they must have that XYZ or at least some similar. Its just basic marketing.

Cycling as a whole can be very very simple. Simple doesnt sell, 'tech' sells, the latest trumped up must have sells. Just look at Apple products as a prime example. A fairly stale market suddenly shaken to its core by one product and now everyone has to have that product or something similar whether its needed or not.

Its great to have the newest, sure, there will always be those that want it (and perhaps have fallen under the spell) but there are those that visited that country, enjoyed its hospitality and have now gone 'home'.

RetriBIKE is to many that 'home'. Simple bikes, easy to maintain, fun to use with any headaches easy to repair or replace.


But it was always thus, we just remember the past differently.

Big companies have always been about making money and small companies do it for the love of it. As true today as it was 20 years ago.

YT Industries are a smallish German company making garishly-liveried hydroformed FS bikes produced in the far east, yet they make a point of supporting young riders (YT: Young Talent), to the extent that they help them continue schooling and ensure that they have career options open once they leave professional cycling.

In fact, simple does sell - massive increase in SS in the past few years, and rigid is properly making a comeback (albeit in 29er format as they supposedly roll better). Personally I'd love one of those Genesis Fortitudes. Not to mention the massive upsurge of late in CX bikes - no suspension, cable discs or cantis, not much different from 20 years ago.

If you don't like the look of modern FS bikes, and they don't suit the riding you do, they don't buy one! But I've had a couple, and love them for a significant amount of the riding I do. Sure, they might be overkill occasionally, but that doesn't diminish the amount of fun I have on them. They also take a beating far better than retro stuff! I'm also yet to have a mechanical on either, so I don't understand this feeling that they're unreliable (or at least any more so than retro).

As for newcomers feeling like they have to have FS to ride offroad, I can kind of see where that might come from in regard to magazines, etc; however, every forum post from someone new to the sport asking for advice on a first bike has always been met with people telling them to buy a decent HT as opposed to a cheap FS, and I'm sure any LBS worth its salt would do the same.

So what if someone who can afford it has a £6k bike on a £35k car but doesn't need it? What business of yours how they spend their money - or should people have to pass a riding test before they're deemed of sufficient ability to make full use of they bike they purchase? If they get enjoyment from riding it, then that's the most important thing!

At the end of the day, it's all bikes, it's all good ;)

Never forget that there have been some gopping retrobikes too! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Quote:
Its not really a 'hate' of modern bikes, I suspect its more to do with the faceless business practices of what is now a dwindling side of the industry. The companies exist for no other reason than to make money, that is all.


I don't see how this is any more true now than it was twenty years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:43 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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I dunno - I re-read the press of the day and see a bit more fun in it all - put a 2013 copy of MBR next to a 1993 copy of MBUK and it all feels more corporate. - something missing.

As for the the car/ bike/ rack thing - cycling has been the new golf for a while so was just drawing on the 'all the gear no idea' cliche - if want to entrust your bike on a £50 rack, go ahead!

You try to say hello and they just ignore you, maybe its my hair or aftershave. It just couldnt be my bike - surely they'd respect such a beast? bits of rubber for braking, cables for shifting, real metal for a frame? Nooooo!

Think I'll go hide in a cupboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:08 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1785
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
legrandefromage wrote:
Is it physically possible to buy a non 'suspension corrected' frame and rigid forks anymore? Or has everyone been so brain washed?


Yes. A track, road, CX or the odd Hybrid / Trekking Bike or most certainly a plain old city bike. If you a referring to a MTB, then
based on my LBS's the answer is a strict NO. It actually doesn't surprise me there is growth in the CX and Hybrid / Trekking markets - if you don't believe me, look at what Shimano are doing....

EDIT PS: Saw a Seven full Ti Mudhoney today in proper use....it was GORGEOUS and MODERN....but not a MTB...


Last edited by Woz on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugly modern bikes
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:16 pm 
Retro Guru
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legrandefromage wrote:
I dunno - I re-read the press of the day and see a bit more fun in it all - put a 2013 copy of MBR next to a 1993 copy of MBUK and it all feels more corporate. - something missing.


A lot of that's jsut 1993 MBUK, I think. Read a different 1993 MTB mag and it'll be considerably more po-faced. MBUK's certainly not as fun/daft (delete according to personal preference/prejudice) as it used to be, but it was a special case (in so many ways) even then.

In fact, I largely agree with your central point, but since it doesn't have much bearing on how I personally choose to enjoy riding bikes I've become untroubled by it :)


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