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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:32 pm 
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WOW!!! :D
Bookmarked!
Thank You!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Fantastic....so much better than the tourist tat and Toblerone they fill our airports with over here. :D
It was classic Italian motorbikes and early TV models when I was over there last November.

Graham Wallace will be pleased that Geoff Apps gets a mention in the 29er blurb, too.

All the best,


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:12 pm 
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Thanks Dan for letting me know about this truly wonderful exhibition.

The full story of Geoff Apps' involvement in the development of bigger wheeled mountain bikes has yet to be told but it's good to see that he gets a mention.

The 29er story they tell in the exhibition is full of errors and omissions. For instance the 1980 Cunningham bike with the oversize front wheel shown at the start of this thread is not mentioned. Nor the any of early the 80's the many big wheeled mountain bikes made for the 650x54B and 700x47C Hakkapeliitta tyres that Geoff Apps exported to Gary Fisher and Charlie Kelly between 1980 and 1984. These early big wheeled bikes proved successful at the races and were made by frame-builders such as Tom Ritchey, Lennard Zinn, Ross Shaffer and Jim Merz.

Also, the discovery of the 700x47C (28"x 1"5/8 x 1"3/4) Hakkapelitta Finish snow tyres is not credited to Geoff Apps, Gary Fisher and Charlie Kelly, but to others.


Attachments:
File comment: 1980 letter from Geoff Apps to Charlie Kelly and Gary Fisher
Hakkapeliitta020.JPG
Hakkapeliitta020.JPG [ 105.14 KiB | Viewed 855 times ]
File comment: The bike on the right is one of the "two prototypes" reffered to in Geoff Apps' letter. It was built in 1981 using 700x47c Hakkapeliitta tyres.
670b and 700c Cleland cross county cycles.jpg
670b and 700c Cleland cross county cycles.jpg [ 130.87 KiB | Viewed 855 times ]


Last edited by GrahamJohnWallace on Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Tungsten studs!? :shock: Tungsten carbide studs... Everyday is schoolday. :oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:11 am 
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GrahamJohnWallace wrote:
...For instance the 1980 Cunningham bike with the oversize front wheel shown at the start of this thread is not mentioned...

What pic/bike in this thread? The two Cunninghams on display at SFO are both 26" wheeled bikes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:07 am 
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halaburt wrote:
GrahamJohnWallace wrote:
...For instance the 1980 Cunningham bike with the oversize front wheel shown at the start of this thread is not mentioned...

What pic/bike in this thread? The two Cunninghams on display at SFO are both 26" wheeled bikes.


Having had a closer look at the perspective and camera angle I now believe that you are indeed correct, and that the impression of a bigger front wheel is an optical illusion.

However according to Charlie Kelly, Charlie Cunningham did use a 700x38C front wheel one of his personal bike as early as 1978.

Here is a quote regarding Charlie Cunningham's bike from Mark Slate of WTB. (Mark was involved in the creation of the 700x52C NanoRaptor that is now commonly referred to as the first true 29er tyre).

"Charlie has been riding a 700x35c tire bike since I think about 1978. I think the first thing Charlie heard of a fat tire for 700c rims was when Wes came out here and brought his "Mountie" with 700x47c Goliath tires." (Though it is not impossible that Charlie knew of the 700x47c Hakkapeliittas that Geoff Apps offered to export in 1980).

So it would seem that Charlie Cunningham may have also had some influence on the thoughts that a 700c mountain bike wheel may be viable thing.


Attachments:
File comment: A modern picture of Charlie Cunningham with a bike fitted with a 700c front wheel. I do not know whether this is his 1978 bike, or a more recent version.
charlie_cunningham__pat_109.jpg
charlie_cunningham__pat_109.jpg [ 215.54 KiB | Viewed 882 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:38 am 
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ah jeezus.. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:56 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:41 pm 
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I'd rather see those bikes being ridden. Its seems such a shame to have them hanging around.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:01 pm 
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GrahamJohnWallace wrote:
However according to Charlie Kelly, Charlie Cunningham did use a 700x38C front wheel one of his personal bike as early as 1978.

Here is a quote regarding Charlie Cunningham's bike from Mark Slate of WTB. (Mark was involved in the creation of the 700x52C NanoRaptor that is now commonly referred to as the first true 29er tyre).

"Charlie has been riding a 700x35c tire bike since I think about 1978. I think the first thing Charlie heard of a fat tire for 700c rims was when Wes came out here and brought his "Mountie" with 700x47c Goliath tires." (Though it is not impossible that Charlie knew of the 700x47c Hakkapeliittas that Geoff Apps offered to export in 1980).

So it would seem that Charlie Cunningham may have also had some influence on the thoughts that a 700c mountain bike wheel may be viable thing.

The bike(s) being referred to by Kelly and Slate were not at all what most people -- including Cunningham himself -- would think of as “mountain bikes”. Rather, they were adaptations of road or cyclocross-style bikes. This model, distinct from Cunningham's mountain bikes, was referred to variously as the “Cyclocross/Multi Purpose” or “Expedition” bike in the Cunningham InfoPacs:
Quote:
This is a rugged skinny tire bike which is built for tires up to 35mm or 1.375”. The bike is a light 21 lbs with Expedition tires. I have enjoyed my own M.P. bike so much that it has inspired me to build this incredibly practical and fun bike for others. My appreciation of this type of bike stems from the fact that it is very efficient on pavement, while being tough enough to go anywhere a mountain bike can go with a little rider finesse. The bike is ideal for efficient travel over varied terrains, including pavement. With lighter rims and tires it can double as an excellent road bike.

Cunningham’s first fully self-built bike -- which he would call a “mountain bike” -- is CCPROTO from 1979. It has 26” wheels front and rear. That bike is one of the two Cunninghams on display at SFO.

The bike in the photograph with Fairfax Pat is from the early 1990’s. The frame was built for a 26” wheel suspension fork. A decade or so later when the Panaracer 700x45c FireCross tire became available, Cunningham re-purposed that bike with the new fork shown --- which would be after all of the Williams/Gordon/NanoRaptor activity. This bike is probably more accurately seen as an extension of Cunningham’s experimenting with mixed wheel sizes rather than as an “early 29’er”.

The best source for accurate information on Cunningham and his bikes is http://www.cunninghambikes.com.


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