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Which steel frame/fork combo will you choose?
Fat & BOI 67%  67%  [ 30 ]
Kona & P2 33%  33%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 45
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:44 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:19 pm
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Location: Brisbane
I haven't voted since I've never ridden a Fat Chance, but I would be interested to see if the lack of a sloping top tube would be a big annoyance (or not) for a short legs like me. I might not get on with a Fat Chance at all. OTOH I know I get on with Kona frames.

That said, and excluding Hots, if I was offered one or the other to keep it'd be the Fat, no question, if only because it's something a bit rarer and well, special. And because I don't own one already (duh).


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 Post subject: Sorry chaps..
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:36 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Location: Up north
No comparison im afraid..Unless it was a TEESDALE built hot vs a YO :wink:

Id still go for the FAT YO..A design classic, well worth the rust hassle :shock:


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 Post subject: Is this fair?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:06 am 
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Again, it's not really a fair comparison, is it?

You've deliberately excluded the top end Konas that would provide a more sensible comparison: The titanium ones from Ti Sports and the handmade steel Hots from Tom Teesdale.

Put it this way:
I like the Kona geometry, 1/18th head tube, low top tube and triple butted P2s.

So, BITD, if I had the money for a custom steel frame I would have got gone to Teesdale not Chance.

Were Fats full custom, anyway?
Or just production sizes with a nice paint job and added hype? :wink:

DM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:19 pm 
Gold Trader
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Deffo Kona for me - and yes it does help if you have teesdales :wink: Owned a yo eddy framein green to dark green fade for a while, lovely detailing but personally never got on with the geometry / funny seatpost and headtube sizes.

Saying that, still wish I had it in the collection...let it go for peanuts :cry: Pretty sure that you could have custom stuff done if you asked nicely?


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 Post subject: fat
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:12 pm 
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Location: walsall near cannoooook
I`ve been through 3 seat tubes but i still love my yo

but to say they have bad geometry :cry:

And to say they dont have a slopping top tube look at the photo :arrow:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:22 pm 
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Location: Warwick
Not a bad fight from the Kona brigade.... :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:32 pm 
BoTM Winner
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Ok, I've enjoyed reading the banter thus far, and although I'm certainly no expert, I do have an opinion based on years of riding and working on both manufactuers frames.

The true tale of a bikes quality is not in the shiny paint or flashy decals, although they make us feel good/excited about the frame, but the unfinished product beneath and the story it tells of it's creation.

Fat's, all the fan hype and love aside, were excellent manufactured frames... I say that because the majority of the bikes produced were not handled by Chris and a few close craftsman, but by many hands that repeated the same process on each frame to create a finished product.

It is in the passing of hands that the details of fine craftsmanship are lost.

I've worked on a number of Fats without paint and there are some alarming mistakes present that should not be excusable on a high end frame; tubes that are not aligned/placed in plane prior to welding, braze on's that are in fact only tack welded and never finished, drilled vent holes in tubes in the vertical plane that are forgotten and left open, welds that have porosity holes from increased internal gas pressure, etc...

The majority of the Fat frames were never even blasted prior to paint to insure good mechanical adhesion, thus the poor paint durability.

Speaking of paint, even on a few NOS frames, I've seen areas of the frame that have not been painted (underneath the seat stays, under the canti hanger).

Now, when you are cranking out the number of frames a year that Fat was, mistakes do occur. Hell, even on custom one off frames it happens. But the pure number/frequency I've observed is a bit unsettling.

As for design, Chris did put a lot of effort into this, as he took time to spec custom tubing and shapes to insure the finished product rode like he anticipated it to.

As for Konas, the majority of the line served it's purpose; to hit a price point market with a product that generated consumer contentment. The TT Hot's were another matter. We had the pleasure of sharing building responsibilities of the Brave Cycle frames for Doug Gloyd with Tom. He did a few runs as did Grove. Tom's work was detailed oriented, precise, and of excellent quality. Although successful, he was always an underated builder, as many of his designs (both geometry and finish) did not excite, but produced long lasting solid bikes.

Strip a TT HOT and a YO and compare frame construction and quality...the HOT will walk away with the honors every time.

FAT vs. Kona...both are held in deep regard in their admirers hearts and will be a contest that will continue for years to come on this board :D

cheers,

rody[/quote]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:14 pm
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Location: Warwick
Crikey...


Anyone selling their Hot?
:D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:18 am 
Concours Judge
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Rody,

Do you have any idea of Mass built FAT vs NY (Serotta) built FAT??? I've not seen many FATs, but I suspect the NY ones compare favourable if it comes on buildquality. On my own welding seemed more neat than on Mass examples I have seen and paint quality is actually very nice. Nice with clearcoat on top, decals under coat ...and I can tell paint on my Yo shines like new ...actually even better than a decent new bike.

I have both Serotta and Serotta made Yo btw. The real Serotta looks ace too 8) One of not so many bikes with welded MaxOR frame!

@monsterfat

Monsterfat, did you really have 3 rusted seattubes?? How could that happen? There excist good measures for prevention.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:27 am 
BoTM Winner
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Mel,

I love the Fats and the heritage that goes with them, please understand that.

But truth be told, the nicest Fats I've seen have been early brazed chances and the later Saratogas.

A pity but it seems that Fat City was a victim of it's own success...trying to keep up with growth.


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