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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:45 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:12 pm
Posts: 2993
Location: Northumberland
I run the stans notube system with 'normal' (supposed to be used with tubes) Conti tyres on the yeti. So far i'm impressed. My main reason was to get rid of pinch punctures. I'm thinking of converting the P20


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:16 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:50 pm
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Location: Over there -->
Can we have the "Badger picture" from STW now, please?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:18 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
Posts: 7306
Location: Hove
I'm thinking of going with a Stan's (or Joe's!) set up with my existing non-UST wheels and tyres. I'm not going to go UST because of the cost, and my only problem with Stan's is, errr, the cost - £45 for two wheels Stan's/Wiggle, £40 Joe's/CR - but then lots of people say they have no flats with this system, so maybe that's worth £45.

The main cost is in the rim strips and it would be cheaper to use a cut-down BMX tube as in the Oz link above, but I don't fancy wasting weight, I like wheels to be light. A Stan's rim strip weighs 60g plus you put c60g of sealant in, so that is actually lighter than a tube. Whereas a BMX tube must weigh heaps. Also the Stan's rim strip has a removeable valve core, which is a big advantage and it fits properly. As the Oz guy says, every six months or so the sealant goes dry so you need to inject another 60g and the tyre would get heavier and heavier, so every once in a while you need to take it off and remove all the dried-up sealant.

How about riding? Obviously you can run lower pressures once you don't need to worry about pinch flats, so you get better grip, but it's also said that the tyres roll better so you get no speed disadvantage from dropping the pressure, anyone find that?


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 Post subject: Toobless
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:15 am
Posts: 7563
Location: North Yorkshire
I have always run Latex tubes and less pressure, which has a lot of the advantages of tubeless, but without the weight. We have more thorn hedges around here than anywhere else in Europe, things have improved since hedges are now only cut about once every two to three years, but never the less its a pain. They pinch flat a lot less then butyl and I have pulled up to 24 thorns from my front tyre, without a puncture. Leave em in and they will eventually puncture though. They also lose air and need a pump up before each ride. I have tried tubeless, but the extra weight of the liners, latex and much heavier tyres makes the bike feel sluggish and hard work on the big climbs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:40 pm 
Mr Darcy
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:36 pm
Posts: 5687
Location: Bicester
Have thought about this a few times, but really struggle to see much advantage for me..

- I run about 33psi in tubed tyres with no pinch issues
- Conti tubes are 90g -lighter than a rimstrip and sealant
- UST tyres are heavier, Stans and the like sound a real pain to fit and seat reliably
- Occasional stories of burping all the air out of a front tyre :shock:
- You still need to carry a spare tube, but now two as no ickle self adhesive patches to get you home.

So for now, I stay retro :D


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 Post subject: Agree
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:15 am
Posts: 7563
Location: North Yorkshire
Agree 100 percent gump, that extra weight really tells after a long ride and the slime/latex dries out fast in Summer, keep it simple.


Last edited by Wold Ranger on Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:34 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:07 pm
Posts: 2676
Location: 52 Festive Road. (Nr. Lincoln)
I've used a rim conversion kit and I can say it's saved me loads of time not having to fix punctures on the trail - it's very thorny where I bike. On the few occasions where I've needed to put a tube in it takes as long as a normal puncture stop. OK, I have to carry two tubes instead of the one, do I notice the extra weight when my Camelbak's on? Nah, not really.

Sealant building up on the inside of the tyre because you have to replenish every three months or so? Maybe, but if you do a lot of miles as I do tyres only last a year anyway. Also I'm 85 kg in my socks and a few extra grams isn't really going to bother me too much. My tyres are faster rolling than my mate's skinnier 1.8 Fire XC pro's with tubes @ 50 PSIG, whether that's down to other variables I don't know, perhaps if we had the same tyres at the same pressures using both systems on similar bikes blah blah blah blah blah..... :wink:

I used Joe's with 2.1 folding Conti Vapors @ 40 PSIG and it was easy peasy to fit.

HTH :)


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 Post subject: Weight
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:07 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:15 am
Posts: 7563
Location: North Yorkshire
It's not just a bit of weight! Generally about 800 to over 1000g extra per pair of wheels. on the trail and up our Yorkshire hills, that slows you down (and takes the fun out of the job) seriously. Liners, tyres and the slime can weigh a Kilo per end! If you're only taking it steady you won't notice any difference, but pushing it up a steep long hill, believe me it tells big style and why they are not that popular still on the XC circuit.


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 Post subject: Re: Weight
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:45 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
Posts: 7306
Location: Hove
Wold Ranger wrote:
It's not just a bit of weight! Generally about 800 to over 1000g extra per pair of wheels. on the trail and up our Yorkshire hills, that slows you down (and takes the fun out of the job) seriously. Liners, tyres and the slime can weigh a Kilo per end! If you're only taking it steady you won't notice any difference, but pushing it up a steep long hill, believe me it tells big style and why they are not that popular still on the XC circuit.


How do you work that out Wold? Stan's liner 60g plus sealant 60g minus tube 190g = 70g saving, standard rim, standard tyre. Where does 800g extra come in? Nobody would race on them if they weighed anywhere near that much.


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 Post subject: Weight
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:30 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:15 am
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Location: North Yorkshire
My tubes weigh 100 g, Conti Supersonic butyl, or Ritchey wcs latex, or Air B. Tubeless tyres are a lot heavier, my current tyres 400 g ish I have three sets of tubeless in the shed, lightest weighes 730g heaviest just short of 900. They have much thicker side walls so you can run lower pressures without them rolling off the rims. Also what about the weight of the sealant gunk at least another 100g there. That's how it stacks up, weight off the wheels is the best place to save. All the major tyre brands are striving to produce a 2.0+ width treaded tyre at 400g for this reason, it's the holy grail for speed up hill.
Mind you we shouldn't really be having this conversation, tubeless tyres? On Retrobike? We should have our nuts cut off with a rusty tyre lever:D


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