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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:15 pm 
East Midlands AEC
East Midlands AEC
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Location: Derby, UK
Is it just me that finds it hard to tell the difference between Mercedes?

Well, I find the same with Kleins. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between Attitudes, Adepts, Rascals, Adroits, Pulses etc etc?

Sorry for my ignorance! :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:52 pm 
Mr Darcy
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you need Carsten.... :D
I know some stuff, but will look a complete muppet when the real encyclopedias come out :shock:

I think it goes...
Rascal = old
Pulse replaced Rascal
Rascal had normal headtubes
Attitude was like a Rascal with Mission Control
Adroit was above attitude and had spangly boron weave bits in down tubes or somthing

However, there are a million and one subtle/not subtle differences in all the above too (tubing diameter/cable routing/age/seatclamps etc).
The rest beats me. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:38 pm 
East Midlands AEC
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whew - so it's not just me! :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:51 pm 
King of the DuckBoard
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Also the Rascal had a 27.2 seat tube. tubes were single butted(i think)
Attutdes were double butted with forks & MC 1 later 2 steering combination
The adroit had boron carbon in rear drop out area and in the front forks. Seat tube was 27.2 then went up to 31.6. The rear drop outs were track bike type till 94 when they went normal style. Also the down tube went from 1.3/4'' to 2'' Thats all i know but their are some Klein people here who know when Gary Klein scratch his head to the last second :shock: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:43 pm 
BoTM Winner | Feature Bike | Gold Trader
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Location: Finland
Pinnacle = basic model with rack/fender mounts, 1" headtube

Rascal / Top Gun = evolution of Pinnacle, no fender mounts, more racy geometry, 1" headtube. Used single butted and plain gauge tubing.

Fervor = essentially same frame as Rascal

Pulse 94-95/Pulse II 96 = Rascal successor, first Klein frame to use 1 1/8" headtube. Came only with suspension fork and therefore the geometry was developed as suspension ready. Used light Gradient tubing and was the lightest Klein frame available.

Attitude 90-92 = Same as Rascal but used Klein Precision 2" headset and Uniklein forks. The 90-91 models came with welded boxy crown.
Attitude 93 = Downtube went from to 42mm to 48mm and seattube went from 31.8mm to 34.9mm (using 27.2mm and 31.6mm seatpost respectively). More butted tubes --> lighter weight.
Attitude 94-96 = New MC2 frame, used Gradient tubing, about 1 lbs lighter than the MC1 frame. Used new "aheadset-like" fork & stem system. The headset used 2" lower and 1.75" upper bearings.

Adroit 91-93 = Top model, used 50mm (2") downtube. First 91 models had 31.8mm seattube and boxy crowned fork but these are very rare. Most Adroits came with 34.9mm seattube. These Adroits had double & triple butted tubing (rear stays were single butted). The fork and seat & chain stays were reinforced with boron/carbon fiber and the rear dropouts were drilled for weight savings. Some paintjobs were Adroit exclusives.
Adroit 94-96 = New MC2 frame, same as Attitude with the exception of 2" downtube. Didn't have boron/carbon anymore, except on the fork. Weight essentially same with Attitude whereas the old Adroit was 1/2 lbs lighter than Attitude.
Adroit 96 = With the exception of the very first 96 Adroits, most of them were actually Attitudes with Adroit paintjobs and stickers. So, even if there might be X in the serial #, the downtube can be Attitude's 48mm.

Adept = Rare hybrid with only a handful made during 1992-95. Essentially an Adroit with 700C tyres and no boron/carbon. Frameset was lighter than Attitude thanks to double & triple butted tubing.

I don't get deep into the race bikes but essentially:

Quantum = base model
Quantum II = lighter, cables inside the frame
Quantum Pro = used MC2 headtube, Aeros fork, etc.
Aeolus = 650C triathlon frame
Panache / Kirstin = small frame for ladies
Performance = touring bike

There were also Team Super, Stage and Custom frame available. The Klein catalogue said that the Team Super was the best frame Klein could produce. It had boron/carbon layers just like Adroit.


Carsten can give you more specific info but I hope this helps at least a bit.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:53 pm 
Klein Guru / BOTM Winner

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Archangel's MTB summary is pretty much complete. the 2" downtube on the MC2 Adroit is lighter than the 1 7/8 Attitude DT.
Pinnacle and Top Gun/Rascal/Fervor were offered in parallel from 1988-1995. the Pinnacle had normal forward facing dropouts and a relaxed geometry and the Rascal/Fervor the horizonal rearward facing drop outs and a steeper geometry. before those there was only the Mountain Klein which afaik was introduced in 1985. the MK has all square chain stays and normal rear drop outs. all other frames have round chain stays at the rear drop outs which become square towards the bottom bracket.

the Team Super was indeed the top end road bike with steep racey geometry. the Quantum was the base stock model. this became the Criterium when custom fitted and with extras (internal cables etc.) and the Team Super with the boron/carbon re-inforced chain and seat stays and fork blades. the Performance was the base stock road bike with more touring oriented geometry. custom fitted and with extras it became the Advantage and with the carbon/boron stuff the top end model Stage.

for 1994 the Quantum II and Quantum Pro were introduced which had Gradient tubes with internal cable routing like the MC2 Attitude and Adroit. the Quantum II has a standard 1" headtube and the Quantum Pro the integrated Airhead set and the MC2 stem.

if there are no logos on the frame the best way to differentiate them are the rear drop outs and the head set type.

Carsten


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:15 pm 
Retro Guru
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One nit with Archangel. The 91 Attitude in the U.S. did come with the rounded uniklein fork. I've heard that a few in the U.S. came with the boxy, mitred fork and I've heard that many in Europe did in 91. I had a 91 with the rounded uniklein .

Pretty good Archangel, but we have to have something to talk about. 8)

Pinguwin


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 Post subject: oh dear !!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:50 am 
Gold Trader
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:21 pm
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Location: Cornwall
yes respect the knowledge guys, but really!! do any of you do anything else other than think about kleins?


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 Post subject: Re: oh dear !!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:48 pm 
Klein Guru / BOTM Winner

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 6:06 pm
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Location: Houston TX
magicmistertea wrote:
yes respect the knowledge guys, but really!! do any of you do anything else other than think about kleins?


maybe we are just long enough interested in those bikes to have gathered the "knowledge" while those bikes were still actual? and even if not - it takes a few hours to read through the Klein catalogs on mtb-kataloge.de to know that much. is there any field you are or were particularly interested in to get a bit more into the details?

cheers, carsten


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 Post subject: oh dear!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:12 pm 
Gold Trader
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Location: Cornwall
beleive me ive been racing mountain bikes since 1990 granted i was young but my best mates family owned a bike shop and i happened to get access to some of the most wanted bikes of the times(kleins,cannondales, etc etc)! ive been in to kleins for a long time! i just allways prefurred riding rather than reading about them! its not that i dont know my xt from my dx cause i do. but you know you have to drawer a line somewhere.


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