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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:38 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:36 am
Posts: 34
Quote:
I had a Zinn, with a super short head tube, & a 150mm stem


True. Though Zinn were doing some good fun things with short rake forks to increase trail and that.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:49 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:35 pm
Posts: 420
Location: Newbury
shedfire wrote:
Quote:
I had a Zinn, with a super short head tube, & a 150mm stem


True. Though Zinn were doing some good fun things with short rake forks to increase trail and that.


The forks were awesome. I remember fondly, glancing down & wittnessing the "twang" :) I wonder what Andy Thompsons doing today ?

I guess, for similar reasons to wearing hideous coloured lycra, i ruined it with the 150stem. !

The fork design has inspired me recently, leaving a cool idea i have been bouncing about for abit :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:52 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:13 pm
Posts: 8182
Location: Tredavoe, Cornwall
I've just missed five minutes of Thunderbirds for that video!!


What a pile of hairy swingers. :roll:


al.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:22 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:21 pm
Posts: 5785
Location: Lost in Translation
Anthony wrote:
The bike stays upright because of the gyroscopic effect of the wheels turning. The faster the wheels are rotating, the greater the gyroscopic effect. That's why it doesn't fall over when you're moving, but it does want to fall over when you stop. You can keep it upright when stationary using balance, but you only need to use balance when there is little or no gyroscopic effect.

I don't think that's quite right. There is a gyroscopic component, and it does increase with speed, but it's not the most important factor.

A cyclist in motion is constantly falling to one side or the other, and steering to correct his fall. It's this steering that keeps the bike upright.

From the cyclist's point of view, steering in a curve of radius r generates a centrifugal force* of magnitude mv²/r.

That means that the steering input required to correct a given lean decreases rapidly as v increases.

On the other hand, as v drops towards zero, the steering input required to correct that same lean increases rapidly until the steering angle required becomes too great, or r is less than the wheelbase of the bike.

It's as that point approaches that we have to come up with new strategies to balance, either shifting our weight around on the bike, or shifting the bike around underneath us.

* http://tinyurl.com/24rxbro


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:30 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:08 pm
Posts: 455
Location: South Shields (Great North Run Finish Line!)
Quite a good read this has turned out to be, it has passed my evening here in Hong Kong rather quickly!

I can from my quite limited experience see both sides of the coin. This guy is...

A: Making a living (on the right side of the PAYE rules I hope)
B: Trying to cash in on the retro scene (to an extent)
C: Offering a product you cant just pick up at any Halfrauds

and

D: Getting some sort of "buy in" from those involved in the scene some 25+ years ago.

It might not suit all tastes here, but it seems to be balanced, it won't suit all of us, but then what will...??

Wako.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:18 pm 
MacRetro rider
MacRetro rider
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 170
Location: SE Scotland
Wako ~

I presume you're talking about me? If so, it's interesting that you have come to those conclusions, so, I'll put the record straight, especially for you... personally (but anyone can read this if they want).

A: The Cleland project is entirely government sponsored; I am doing it on welfare benefits and a lot of hard work. If you think I'm a sponger, the government receives in excess of £35,000 every year from a product I designed, but for which I received no payment.

B: Read more carefully the Cleland website (www.clelandcycles.wordpress.com) and you'll then understand that the AventuraTT is an entirely up-to-date concept in terms of its componentry, and has no retro elements in the design, other than those which are co-incidental; for example, is a Brooks saddle retro?

C: You will probably never get a Cleland from Halfords, but who knows? In the future you may be able to get a Cleland look-alike! Halfords sell the product mentioned above. It's sold elsewhere, too.

D: You may well be quite right there. It tends to be more mature (physically and mentally) riders who appreciate the benefits and subtle elements of the Aventura design.

It is not intended to suit all tastes, by any means, but it does serve to question many preconceived notions about off-road bicycle design; challenging prejudices regarding componentry. However, more to the point, it provides a choice in design which doesn't currently exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:53 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:33 pm
Posts: 11105
Location: The Home Of Mountain Biking, And All Great Things.
Reading back through this thread I think perhaps there is a market for the Cleland design based on its use in the urban environment.

The ease of lifting the front wheel makes light work of mounting kerbs, and would tend to prevent unseen obstacles such as potholes resulting in an 'off'.

A large volume rear tyre combined with some form of rear suspension to absorb the forces without the need to lift one's ass from the saddle would appeal to the lazy amongst us.

The possibilities for comfortable/clean commuting make it very attractive to me, yet also able to take on the hills should you feel inclined. (Boom, boom.)

The Town & Country bike.

More Range Rover than Land Rover.

Large volume panniers/basket to carry decent amounts would make it an unbeatable urban utility vehicle.

And, by God!, it is British! (Regardless of where the component parts may originate.)

I think it would appeal to a lot of people as an alternative to the current crop of city/commuter/cruiser bikes.

It is great to see something like this moving out of history into the present.

:)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:28 pm 
MacRetro rider
MacRetro rider
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 170
Location: SE Scotland
Spot ON!

I use my TT for the shops as well. I don't carry large loads, just a couple of 'front' panniers on a small seat-pin-mounted rear carrier. With careful packing, these are also sufficient for a long weekend at a B+B or hotel.
With the tyres pumped-up hard, it spins along, and the riding posture, combined with a high centre of gravity, allows for quick changes in direction, sometimes around moving cars which don't always do what you expect, or a sudden decision to mount the kerb to get round a jam, and things like that.
Rear suspension comes in the guise of a spring saddle AND a sprung seatpost. However, with ANY form of suspension, it is wise to ride your bike dynamically and not just plonk yourself on it like a sack of potatoes.
The Aventura concept has always been an all-rounder, hence lights etc, with the principal bias toward off-road performance, but still a capable urbanite. I daresay some purchasers may want that bias the other way round, and adapt their Aventuras accordingly.
The Range Rover vs Land Rover debate continues!
All British, yes, but with a significant nod in the direction of The Netherlands...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:19 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:08 pm
Posts: 455
Location: South Shields (Great North Run Finish Line!)
No Geoff,

I was talking about the guy in the video on whom the thread was started.

Wako


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:51 am 
MacRetro rider
MacRetro rider
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 170
Location: SE Scotland
My mistake!

I hope what I said was of interest anyway?


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