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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:29 pm
Posts: 389
Russell wrote:
Right, first of all, my 'whatever 'comment was put up before amt edited


My point had the same meaning before I edited it

Russell wrote:
what incenses me, and I believe that I'm entitled to an opinion? Is that some people see a dirty bike or a bike with a rusty chain and make the assumption that it is not being used properly so it deserves to be with them, I think that is impolite.


This is pretty poor coming from a retrobiker, if people like us didn't pick up rusty old bikes from any situation there would be no retro scene and some bike history would be lost forever

Russell wrote:
You know what an Aluminium 'O' is worth, get your cheque book out and offer them its market value.


buyers do not pay market value they pay would is value for money to them and what is added value to them, welcome to capitalism, everything is for sale

Russell wrote:
What you're asking the current owner to do is accept riding around on a less prestigious bike so that you can own a better one, whats that worth to you?


I am not asking the owner to do any such thing, your assumptions are worse than the ones you think I have


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:15 am 
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 12:08 am
Posts: 107
Location: The United States of London
Russell wrote:
What you're asking the current owner to do is accept riding around on a less prestigious bike so that you can own a better one, whats that worth to you?


Less prestigious to who ?

That is exactly what approaching the owner would establish.

If I was wearing a pair of old trainers to wash some windows and someone approached me to point out they are very rare 1988 Nike XXX classics - that he was a collector of such things - and that he would give me £50 and a new pair of trainers in exchange - how should I react, should I be mortified ? Insulted ? would I consider it 'poor form' or impolite ?

I think my response would run no further than either "Sorry mate, I quite like these and I want to keep them, but good luck with your trainer hunting" - or - "Sure, £50 and a newer pair of trainners would suit me fine, cheers, hope they are the ones you were after"

I don't expect an incensed bike owner to turn around to amt27and shriek "how dare you".


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:06 am 
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Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Whether you ask about the bike or not, I'd be interested in seing a few more photos of it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:19 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Location: The desolate flats of Cambridgeshire
There is absolutely no harm in asking! I find it hard to understand your point of view russel, but ofcourse you are fully entitled to it!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:41 am 
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
I think amt summed it up with his capitalism comments. I've been a mug for letting my political views interfere with a bikey site. Some people are happy with capitalism and the fact that 'everything is for sale', some people are not, I'm the latter.

I don't think that my views are 'poor for a retrobiker'. As a retrobiker thats interested in the history (both of the manufacture and socio-political) of cycles in general, I know that up until quite recently, cyclists were in general a pretty staunch socialist group, even leaning towards communism in the fringes and most of the cyclists of old would be opposed to capitalism too.

Sorry to cut/paste directly from another site, but the following is taken from www.thebikezone.co.uk "From the earliest days the bicycle was at the heart of the socialist movement, most notably through the National Clarion Cycling Club. As well as allowing ordinary people to escape the mills, mines and factories for the freedom of the countryside this organisation saw the bicycle as a means by which people could be brought together in 'Liberty, Equality and Fraternity' and as a means by which the message of socialism 'The Hope of the World' could be spread far and wide."

I'm one of the few that still sees the cycle in that way and it may be nice if as retrobikers, a few more of us took an interest in how we got to where we are today and placed less emphasis on owning the shiny bits :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:37 am 
B.o.T.M. Winner / Gold Trader
B.o.T.M. Winner / Gold Trader
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Location: CAMBRIDGE .. UK
raa calm down folks, u should come to cambridge everyday i see nice bikes/wreks/taped up commuters etc.

been watching a marin team titanium & a orange clockwork for a few months now.

there is no harm what so ever asking as ive done it twice now and bought both bikes! and even one had the original recite, bought a kona off a japanesse guy who had no idea what it was and incidently was finshing his phd and going home to his country, the other was a pugeot team off some one who had the oringal sales recite..

i was even asked at a set off traffic lights if i wanted to sell my nickel p7 while going to work. i said no, then few months later it snapped, doh!

working in a bike shop also helps. the amount off people who have bikes in this town that they have no idea what it is, majority is a cheap means to get to the uni pub.

yes i agree some people love there bike and basically ride it into the ground, and never want to pass it on. but no harm in been polite and approching someone! the worse they can do is say no.

oddly enough my dad done this and bought a car! which hasnt moved now in 15 yrs, lol

either way peace people.

:D


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:02 pm 
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Russell wrote:
Some people are happy with capitalism and the fact that 'everything is for sale', some people are not, I'm the latter.


:roll:

That is a black & white either/or view of the world I am sure George Bush would be proud of, let us be honest here, we are all capitalists to some degree, you are typing your posts on the product of capitalism, you have invested and engaged with capitalism the moment you bought your first bike (or is there a state owned bike company I am unaware of ?)

I would think if your goal is to temper naked capitalism with some kind of personal ethic then there are numerous more deserving targets than someone wishing to buy an old bicycle they take an interest in, off a disinterested owner (just to qualify that: if the owner was indeed interested in the bike he would likely say so and no deal would be struck).

I would in fact love to see more of this kind of grassroots trading/bartering between individuals.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:51 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
Look, its my opinion, its not right or wrong.

No its not black/white, I paraphrased because it wouldn't be right to go into a full blown discussion on this site, too much bandwidth and frankly not that interesting to most of the users.

As for the computer being a product of capitalism, some might argue that as it empowers the masses enabling communication and sharing of ideas and ideals across the globe it is actually the opposite. Incidentally, my first bike was second hand, hardly fuelling the economy or increasing the directors paypackets at Raleigh with that purchase.

Of course there isn't a state owned cycle company, perhaps if there was we wouldn't have the problems that we do on the roads today, the problems that we face with climate change or the high levels of obesity in kids? Who knows? Conversely if there was such a company, we almost certainly wouldn't have the thriving retro-scene that we all enjoy.

Totally off topic now, so I'll finish by re-stating what I said many posts ago! "You know what an Aluminium 'O' is worth, get your cheque book out and offer them its market value."


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:00 pm 
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there would be no mountain bike scene let alone a retrobike scene if socialism and communism had its way,

socialism allowed for product orientated production with no regard for consumer needs, result - russians driving all the same cars

changing consumer needs brought us mountain biking and the vast range of bikes and components available to us in the last 30 years

hence the reason socialist groups all loved riding around on similar designed bikes from fewer manufacturers, they all felt equal,

I doubt cyclist were socialist, rather socialist were cyclist and did many other recreational activities as well,

socialism and communism also likes to disregard big chunks of history, history helps to inspire innovation, capitalism like to preserve history for whatever commercial value it may have in the future,


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Location: No brakes? Way to commit soldier.
Mountain biking has been around for a lot longer than 30 years, in this country the Rough Stuff Fellowship was started over 50 years ago IIRC? In Marin (and CK will either confirm or 'poo-poo' this!) people initially started riding off road for fun and to be with their friends, not for any commercial gain.

Socialists rode bikes to get away from the workplace and to experience freedom, not because they all liked riding the same bike! Mountainbiking, the feeling of escape and release from the working world is in essence a very socialist pursuit.


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