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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:04 am 
retrobike rider
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danson67 wrote:
How important do you think the wheel size and Nokia tyres are to the ride?

I notice that Geoff has used 26"/559, 650B/584mm and 29er/622mm over the years.

Clearly, when the Range Rider etc were originally built, there was little or no choice of fat tyre, and the 650B Nokia filled the void.
With the larger choice of 559 and 622 tyres aroung these days, should we still encourage Kenda, Pacenti, Velocity etc and the US 650B revival? It doesn't seem to have got rolling enough yet not to be more than a woolly romaticict revival in the US, but might be useful to the Cleland/Highpath project.:evil:

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/p ... ires-11794
http://www.freewebs.com/650b/
http://www.650bpalace.blogspot.com/
http://650b.com/
http://twentynineinches.com/cats/rogue-wheels/650b/

It would be sweet if 650B returned as a popular mountainbike size, after that original Kelly/Fisher enquiry was unearthed :)


Hi Danson,

The wheel size depends on the use of the bike, with smaller wheels better for technical and trials riding and big wheels for long distance touring or riding on soft terrain.

The original 650B Nokia tyres were heavy but could be run at much lower pressures (-15psi) than other mountain bike tyres and never pinch punctured. We used to think this was because of the thick sidewalls, however recent research has shown this was not the reason. The true reason was related to the size of the inner-tubes relative to the tyre. An uninflated Nokia tube was the same size as its tyre, and all the pressure went instantly into supporting the sidewall. Tubes that are narrower than their tyres can in fact use up 15psi before the tube even touches the sidewall.

With modern tyres you can run low pressure tyre and tube combinations that are half the weight of the old 650b Nokia ones, have more lateral stability, lower rolling resistance and can hold the big air volumes needed for rocky terrain.

I have been running some 650b Schwalbe' Racing Ralph tyres and wide thin tubes on my 1988 Highpath Cleland since July, with no problems. At 7psi front and 15psi rear the lower rolling resistance has given the old bike a new lease of life. I can even keep up with mountain bikes whilst running low pressures on the road. The old Nokia tyres were never great on hard smooth surfaces and the on-road drag was always a problem even when running higher pressures. I recommend puncture sealant which works better in un-streched inner-tubes as any hole will not stretch or split. So far I have had no issues with pinch punctures and will swap to using thicker downhill tubes, if ever I do.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:20 pm 
retrobike rider
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Dear Graham,

Thanks for that, clears some things up. I got confused with the 559 size because of the Clelandale. I didn't twig that it ran larger wheels.

I'm glad 650B seems to be making a comback as all the other sizes Geoff seems keen on unusual/obsolete/limited choice sizes :wink: 650D/ 600B :shock:

All the best,


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:05 pm 
MacRetro rider
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Oh, I forgot to mention the 650A wheels on the Clelandale. BTW 650D is standard 26" MTB size.

I generally favour larger wheels, I'm quite happy with 700C, and find them OK for nadgery; if I am making a compromise, I'm not really aware of it. In the picture below are the 700B ones (and NuVinci gears!) I'll be moving up to after Christmas.

Although I don't disagree with Graham, my experiments are to use a large section heavy-duty inner tube, designed for motorcycles or agricultural machinery.

I use Slime puncture sealant, but I put only about a third of the recommended amount in.

The Cleland Birthday ride is coming up next weekend and Graham and I will be getting together to compare notes on this matter. There will doubtless be some commentary on the website under R&D.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:52 pm 
retrobike rider
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Graham and Geoff,

I'm hoping to get down on Sunday myself, with a new acquisition :shock: ,
so we can talk tyre sizes, pressures and elliptical chainrings over some tea and cake :)

All the best,


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:07 pm 
MacRetro rider
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Weather permitting!

It would be excellent to see you there and meet you again, that's if we met at Dees ~ to be honest, I can't remember.

I was to set off for Sussex yesterday. By 11am all three routes south were closed.

So, let's see how the weather develops over the next few days!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:21 pm 
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Geoff,

I am interested to hear your view on riding on deep snow. What if any adaptions would be best for this?

Stu.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:33 am 
MacRetro rider
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First, get winter tyres http://www.suomityres.fi/winter.html

Run tyres near flat.
Remember that ploughing through deep snow absorbs energy, you won't be able to go so far or as fast as you would in the dry.
You need a relaxed poise so you can maintain control on unexpected hazards under the snow.
Some snow is completely unrideable, some snow is surprisingly easy to ride on.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:57 pm 
retrobike rider
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danson67 wrote:
Graham and Geoff,

I'm hoping to get down on Sunday myself, with a new acquisition :shock: ,
so we can talk tyre sizes, pressures and elliptical chainrings over some tea and cake :)

All the best,


Hi Danson,

I look forward to meeting you on the Cleland Reunion ride this Sunday. I only live seven miles away from Wendover and so I will be riding whatever the weather. After all there are 28 years of tradition to perpetuate.

Follow this link for details...

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 6&start=15


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:50 pm 
retrobike rider
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Highpath No "0"!

The 1985 Highpath that I remember as the first one built from an all new frame and parts was ridden by its current owner on last Sunday's Cleland reunion ride. Also on the ride was James Walters the original owner of the bike.

And the frame number of this bike was??????

Well it did not have one. But neither I or James remember any earlier Highpaths apart from those made from Cleland frames.

If Somerled's find is Highpath No "1"

This earlier bike must be Highpath No "0"


http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... ht=cleland


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