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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:58 pm 
retrobike rider
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sinnerman wrote:
FluffyChicken wrote:
By the way, what's with the madcows reference above ?



lol.... :D :D ....it was making ref, to the early days at the malverns....just mental....you had to be there..


Ah, so not to Mad Cow Racing then
http://www.madcowracing.org.uk/history.html


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:22 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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FluffyChicken wrote:
sinnerman wrote:
FluffyChicken wrote:
By the way, what's with the madcows reference above ?



lol.... :D :D ....it was making ref, to the early days at the malverns....just mental....you had to be there..


Ah, so not to Mad Cow Racing then
http://www.madcowracing.org.uk/history.html


lol..lol...lol..lol.......it might well be....ive been looking through old photos to see if i could show you, but years of dust and my eyes arnt what they were.....lol., and i dropped my white stick when trying to get back down from the attic where i keep my memories....lol......im pretty sure it was, i remember watching the lake leaping and the bunny hoping with jez avery too, in the end they were doing it naked with just a pair of ears......, did you go to the malverns around the late eighties yourself......?, if so what did you race then back in the day?.........the madcows expression always stuck anytime anyone of us do sumthing stupid, even after 20 years one of our little revival still shouts it out..............good times never die, or get forgotten.........lol....... :D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:35 pm 
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I think there's a definite need for a 'Malverns Gallery' - the more picutres - even of the site itself... the better :D

Mostly 'cos I don't have any even though I was there twice... !!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:11 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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Colinmac wrote:
I think there's a definite need for a 'Malverns Gallery' - the more picutres - even of the site itself... the better :D

Mostly 'cos I don't have any even though I was there twice... !!


i agree completely.........lets take a vote or sumthing there are enough of us, that were there, we should ask for a gallery archive or sumthing.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:41 pm 
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also the canadian imoprter is still today called the tbg, but after finding out that the marin frames of the same era were made by the taiwanese bicycle group, it does kinda beg the question did this company also weld the early frames before paul brodie did his brazing too them....someone in taiwan made them, it seems like a very big coincidence to me......and i long to find this out

Taiwan Bicycle Group doesn't make anything directly. It acts as an agent for loads of Taiwanese factories, so if you want something making you can ask TBG and they'll get quotes and deal with everything. Taiwan BG doesn't, as far as I know, have anything to do with The BG, any more than either of them are related to American Bicycle Group, or Cycling Sports Group or various other similarly-named outfits :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:42 pm 
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[quote="MikeD"]also the canadian imoprter is still today called the tbg, but after finding out that the marin frames of the same era were made by the taiwanese bicycle group, it does kinda beg the question did this company also weld the early frames before paul brodie did his brazing too them....someone in taiwan made them, it seems like a very big coincidence to me......and i long to find this out

Taiwan Bicycle Group doesn't make anything directly. It acts as an agent for loads of Taiwanese factories, so if you want something making you can ask TBG and they'll get quotes and deal with everything. Taiwan BG doesn't, as far as I know, have anything to do with The BG, any more than either of them are related to American Bicycle Group, or Cycling Sports Group or various other similarly-named outfits :)[/quote

i must admit i after researching this myself, have found the tbg today, and the website, it does today look like a distibutor for a multitude of taiwanese manufacturers, obviously the book i saw (which was as thick as a bible, and i mean huge), had a large frame section, i must admit there was a big section showing all the frame variations for the early 90s marin range of bikes , including the teflon paint finish and even the brand names, which did surprise me, i have even manged to source other oem manufacturers for scott and even.......wait for it....litespeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so given the early murray tie up with marin, and the fact that tbg,supplied a book showing marin frames for other manufacturer/suppliers and the like, to buy/be guided by, for design/manufacture/supply?......its now looking likely that there may have been an involvement.....by the tbg....and what was to become the later kona brand, even if only a broker so to speak, for the kona boys......?????????? especially as there frames were stamped with a letter T , what we need is to see a book from that era, cause even there company logos were similar......this has vex"ed me for 20 years, and after seeing current non stickered frames today online on these taiwanese frame manufacturers websites, that are identical in every way to my own alloy/ carbon litespeed, and current model scott mountain bike hardtail frames, i think after racing/ shop owning /manufacturing/and importing, its time i went to the next taipei bicycle trade show. any one wanna go on a jolly boys outing...?????????????/ :D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:18 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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...........i think im having another beer mat moment......... :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:20 pm 
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Quote:
the book i saw (which was as thick as a bible, and i mean huge)


That's the Taiwan Bicycle Guide. It's got stuff from pretty much every Taiwanese factory in it.

Here's how it works. You are a bike company. You have designed a range of bikes, but for whatever reason (cost, volumes) you either can't or don't wish to actually build the frames yourself. So you go to Taiwan and find a factory that can make what you want. You might do this through TaiwanBG, or some other agent. You get some samples made, and when you're happy, you order a few thousand frames.

In earlier days there was a not-insignificant risk that your frame design would then find its way into the Taiwan Bicycle Guide as an off-the-peg option that people who couldn't be bothered to design their own stuff could order themselves. These days that doesn't happen so much, partly because the bike companies are a bit more canny with contracts, partly because it'd be harder to get away with because frames are pretty distincitive these days, partly because some companies actually own the tooling that lives in someone else's factory, partly because in some cases the factory has a large stake in the company and it'd be like shooting themselves in the foot :)

The upshot of all this is that, while it's entirely possible that Kona and Marin frames have, at some time, been made in the same factory, that doesn't mean that Kona and Marin are in any way related beyond happening to have contracted their manufacturing out to the same factory. This is inevitable, because there are more brands than factories. It's also often the case that different frames from the same brand are made in different factories - some factories specialise in different materials, some may be cheaper but not quite as high quality, so they do the low-end frames and the posh stuff is done up the road.

It's all quite complicated, really :)


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 Post subject: Hot Pies
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Mad cow ref = 'Team Hot Pies' if my grey matter serves me correctly.

I'm sure they used to ride around moo'ing at people as some kind of gimmick. All seemed very funny in those early days of UK MTB races.

Sinnerman, how about the NBS that we where part of with the Guys that roade the Tushingham and Bear Valley in Plymouth. The NBS was the reference to the then, New Blue Smarties!

Very retro indeed

Has anyone on Retrobike got a tushingham?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:08 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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MikeD wrote:
Quote:
the book i saw (which was as thick as a bible, and i mean huge)


That's the Taiwan Bicycle Guide. It's got stuff from pretty much every Taiwanese factory in it.

Here's how it works. You are a bike company. You have designed a range of bikes, but for whatever reason (cost, volumes) you either can't or don't wish to actually build the frames yourself. So you go to Taiwan and find a factory that can make what you want. You might do this through TaiwanBG, or some other agent. You get some samples made, and when you're happy, you order a few thousand frames.

In earlier days there was a not-insignificant risk that your frame design would then find its way into the Taiwan Bicycle Guide as an off-the-peg option that people who couldn't be bothered to design their own stuff could order themselves. These days that doesn't happen so much, partly because the bike companies are a bit more canny with contracts, partly because it'd be harder to get away with because frames are pretty distincitive these days, partly because some companies actually own the tooling that lives in someone else's factory, partly because in some cases the factory has a large stake in the company and it'd be like shooting themselves in the foot :)

The upshot of all this is that, while it's entirely possible that Kona and Marin frames have, at some time, been made in the same factory, that doesn't mean that Kona and Marin are in any way related beyond happening to have contracted their manufacturing out to the same factory. This is inevitable, because there are more brands than factories. It's also often the case that different frames from the same brand are made in different factories - some factories specialise in different materials, some may be cheaper but not quite as high quality, so they do the low-end frames and the posh stuff is done up the road.

It's all quite complicated, really :)
....

:lol: . thanks for that i dont think there anything complicated about any of it, simple business really,........economics etc, my main point was simply trying to get to the bottom of what taiwanese company actually produced these early frames, and i had hoped that sumone sumwhere could enlighten me....got to be honest though i didnt think it would be quite so easy to pull up current brands like litespeed and scott etc, off the web, just like that, perhaps there contracts arnt quite so tite...., it also makes a lot of sense now/today, not sure what side of the pond you are from, but in the last five years or so, we have seen so many new bike brands coming to market here in the uk , ive lost count (smaller niche brands like on-one cotic etc...and then entire ranges of bikes , lapierre, mondraker, ghost.etc etc etc, all manufactured in taiwan etc,) it can only be a good thing, cant it, more choice, more styles, more advancements in material and technologies etc, also the more made, drives the pricing down too.or supposed to at least, they say competition is healthy..lol..... :D it does sound like you are familiar/ in the trade though???????????????????????????????????????????????????


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