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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:41 am 
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tintin40 wrote:
Plus. The modern bikes are just rubbish. They are every thing i hate about Mtb's- Full Suspension/Front Suspension/ riser handle bars/Disc brakes :evil: :evil: plus they copy the retro. my XT-R 07 cranks are a copy of my bullseye crank. just useing Allu rather than cr-mo.




I find these days that if you were to remove all the stickers and paint all the bikes the same colour, you couldn't tell who made which bike. :roll:

They're all made in the same eastern factory, or might as well be.

The beauty of retro stuff is that is was designed to do a job from the ground up by someone passionate about cycling. Not created by the bean counters.

The likes of Fat Chance, Klein, Mantis, DeKerf etc etc, were all bike that we lusted after, few owned them but they were something that we all wished we could afford.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:43 am 
North Wales Deputy AEC
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It's a peculiarly post-modern marketing phenomenon, that of recycling and representing brands within the span of a generation and a half...

I suspect it's part capitalist-driven (eg. the concept of converting one's vinyl into CD format - making the consumer re-purchase within the space of a few years - pure financially-driven genius!) and part cultural, in that we are all stretching our impressionable youth further and further (principally through better health and living longer).

Culturally our generation is able to enjoy in a guilt-free way this nostalgic re-hash, not only as fond reminiscences but also as 'real' and active past times. Classic car sales are on the up again and no doubt 'analogue' photography equipment values will rise despite the advent of digitisation.

Perhaps we are motivated to recall and cherish the the tools of our hobbies instigated by the 'threat' of the never ending cycle of the new and the fangled. In our case it turns out that some of the pioneers just happened to have made the perfect product first time out (they or we just didn't know it then!) - now we can legitimately scoff at 9 speed shifting systems when they clog up at the lightest dusting because we have paid our dues and know that 7 or 8 speed is the best compromise.

Hence we see the results of the pressure to deliver year-on-year updated products as marketing hype, but at least both old and new schools can feel a sense of superiority - the contemporary consumer feels that we are being left behind, we think the modern stuff is sh*te - you takes yer choice!

With regard to things like reissued Clockworks and Stumpies - they can be seen to represent one's awakening to the whole 'recycle-re-market' issue - on the one hand they really do activate and stimulate all those warm and fuzzy 'want one - again' sensations, on the other, we sense we are being cynically manipulated by knowing marketeers. If you can rid yourself of that feeling of patronisation - you can be free to enjoy the whole experience all over again with these ready-made, nostalgic 'solutions', without the hassle and unreliability of old kit.

Prof. Neil
University of the Old School

PS. My current concern is that I am so captivated and sidetracked with the self-indulgent memories, the chase of parts, the wrestling with the build etc. that I seem to spend less time actually riding - ultimately, that's a warning sign!!!


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:43 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:18 am
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tintin40 wrote:
I have embraced a little. I have a 'Ahead set' which does work well :D


dude, aheadset came out in 91! theres bikes on this forum being classed as retro which are waay newer than that :lol: :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:49 am 
Old School Grand Master

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mrkawasaki wrote:

Prof. Neil
University of the Old School

PS. My current concern is that I am so captivated and sidetracked with the self-indulgent memories, the chase of parts, the wrestling with the build etc. that I seem to spend less time actually riding - ultimately, that's a warning sign!!!


I have 2 distinct groups of friends. those that collect & those that ride. strangely seems to be very little middle ground... although given a choice I'd always prefer to ride :) let your concious be your guide :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:18 am
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Location: near cwmcarn
B3 wrote:
tintin40 wrote:
Plus. The modern bikes are just rubbish. They are every thing i hate about Mtb's- Full Suspension/Front Suspension/ riser handle bars/Disc brakes :evil: :evil: plus they copy the retro. my XT-R 07 cranks are a copy of my bullseye crank. just useing Allu rather than cr-mo.




I find these days that if you were to remove all the stickers and paint all the bikes the same colour, you couldn't tell who made which bike. :roll:

They're all made in the same eastern factory, or might as well be.

The beauty of retro stuff is that is was designed to do a job from the ground up by someone passionate about cycling. Not created by the bean counters.

The likes of Fat Chance, Klein, Mantis, DeKerf etc etc, were all bike that we lusted after, few owned them but they were something that we all wished we could afford.


dude, you need to look away from companies like orange, santa cruz (& as a previous owner I'm not dissing them!) & look at bikes like soulcraft, sycip, brew, groovy cycleworks, IF etc etc... the love & the passion are still there, just not as mainstream as the 5in XC FS rigs that are so common now (& fun as hell to ride ;) )
hell jeff@firstflight helped bump start mountain goat again... mountain goat deluxe with california yuppie paint with disc brakes & 140mm forks please ;) :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:58 am 
King of the DuckBoard
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dude, aheadset came out in 91!

But i like the pre-Ahead set. But i do have 9 speed.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:20 pm 
Retro Guru
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I know what you're saying Scant, seem to be spending a lot of my time here, http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/index.php?act=home gaining insparation, it only a matter of time now before i start doing my own thing. :D


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:34 pm 
Mr Benn
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scant wrote:
dude, you need to look away from companies like orange, santa cruz (& as a previous owner I'm not dissing them!) & look at bikes like soulcraft, sycip, brew, groovy cycleworks, IF etc etc... the love & the passion are still there, just not as mainstream as the 5in XC FS rigs that are so common now (& fun as hell to ride ;) )



Yup, it is out there still. Just look at the growing popularity of the Handmade Bike show every year.

I guess that's where a lot of us are now. Buying contemporary frames that have an older feel than most off the shelf new ones and speccing them with a mix of old and new to get it just right.

I suppose that's the ideal deal isn't it? A new Indy or Seven etc, that's new and modern but also classic and old school and then you have the best of both worlds.

That's where my main ride is at.


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 2:20 pm 
Mr Darcy
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Location: Bicester
Just remember, old school stuff wasn't always old school. It was once kinda mainstream.

Certainly with the guys I rode with Disc Drives, ti frames, Grafton, Bontrager, Yeti, Ringle, XTR etc etc were pretty much the norm and cutting edge, we all had it.

Todays modern stuff is just further development, as was 8 speed XTR, cassette hubs, ahead sets, index shifting, lightweight parts etc back in the day. Always gonna happen.
Some stuff now is fantastic, some just wrong. Hence the good parts will continue.

But, now we have more choice to ride what we want.
You can have a bike suited to every kind of ride you can think of, rather than the one for all of yesteryear.

Retro stuff is cool. A lot of it works really well, and can hold its own in new school land.

But no way for a good hard ride would I take retro by choice. New stuff, if chosen right, is fantastic.

Would like to get an IF or DeKerf one day, as I think these are quality bikes, as have always been. These bikes along with Sycip, Mather etc I am sure will still be looked upon fondly in years to come. The quality is still around, it just ain't mainstream mag content 'next big marketing' thing so doesn't feature as much.


waffle waffle

more waffle

blah

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:04 pm
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Location: North East Scotland (Aberdeen)
Interesting thread.

I agree with much that has been writen. I don't have rose tinted spectacles for much of the boutique components that float a lot of boats on here. I've seen far to much of it break, or fiddled with a lot of it and know what a nightmare it is to set up. I worked for many years in a shop where I got to play with lots of fancy stuff. I ran 7spd XT until I was sure that 8spd XT was better and then I switched to that - reliability was everything when you only had one bike and funds were short :(

My bikes are for riding which is why good modern V-brakes and an 8spd XT groupset is a minimum even on my retro rides. I didn't run XTR drivetrains back in the day because I could not justify the expense - and I'm still happy with that decision and thinking now; although I will bend the rules and run XTR V-brakes because brakes are life and death :wink: .

The items that float my boat are the ones that I used or nearly used/bought. High price NOS is a waste for me as I plan to use the stuff so the premium I just paid is gone when I open the packet... may as well buy new stuff as it's better.

I doubt I'd buy a rehash of anything when there are so many classics still available reasonably cheaply. New Mathers, IF's and Sycip's tempt me but when modern Trek 8900's and Orange P7's etc ride so well it's kind of hard to justify going for a mega custom bike unless you really are after something different - and much as we flower it up it's no different to boy racers and their be-spoilered dick swinging. The only people who will notice your custom frame and purple anodised do-dar-wotsit are just as sad as you are :shock:

Riding my Lloyd or my Kona is about going back to simply riding. I love the singlespeed of the Kona because it's like being a beginner again even on trails I know really well - your often in the wrong gear, but in the right gear because it's all you've got. The Lloyd is just an old skool race bike... head down arse up get on with the business of riding fast up hills and bouncing about back down. To set a modern hardtail up like that is a bit of a waste of all the suspension and disk brake technology. I suppose I could build a modern bike up like that but it would cost much more and the Lloyd is something I wanted back in the day... so two bikes in one :?

I also know that weight weeniesm is not for me because I used to break stuff too frequently anyway - although not so much now I have more than one bike.


Even I'm bored of this now :roll:


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