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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:57 pm 
BoTM Winner
BoTM Winner

Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 1066
Location: Hartlepool, County Durham
Got this Kili today after a purchase via Facebook marketplace...

Seller was a great guy who knows very little about bikes but this is a one owner bike that his late father owned. After doing a deal he agreed to package it to me and in fairness did a fantastic job..

Sadly when it arrived today I noticed a crack to the paint on the rear left chain stay. I contacted the seller and I know I have no comeback but he’s offering me some refund.

I’m pretty gutted as I’ve been after I’ve of these in this colour for ages in medium size...

Now looks like I’ll need to strip it to inspect what this damage is... either rust formed around a joint and hopefully saveable or worst case scenario it will need a small weld...

Anyone else seen this on Kili’s?

I defo think it’s worth saving so either way it’s getting a fresh powdercoat in the same colour once investigated... there doesn’t seem to be any flex so I’m hoping it’s the former and not the latter...

Thoughts anyone?

Cheers
Andy


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:24 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:27 pm
Posts: 1008
What does the other side look like? To me that looks like rust bubbling under the paintwork at the weld site rather than a crack.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:59 pm 
BoTM Winner
BoTM Winner

Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 1066
Location: Hartlepool, County Durham
Other side is fine but there is a line in the paint like that is exactly where the weld will be... I’ll need to strip it I guess to check? I’ll attach a pic ...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:00 pm 
BoTM Winner
BoTM Winner

Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 1066
Location: Hartlepool, County Durham
Looks like it’s getting fresh PC either way but it’s worth saving...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:28 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:04 pm
Posts: 2635
Location: A wretched hive of scum and villainy...
That wishbone unit is a casting, with fairly long plugs going into the stays, maybe 15mm long.
It should probably have been brazed, since that's what it was designed for, rather than welded, but easy enough to braze again as a repair before PC.

If you sand off the paint around the crack, you should be able to see if there's a ring of brass around the joint or not.

All the best,


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:43 pm 
BoTM Winner
BoTM Winner

Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 1066
Location: Hartlepool, County Durham
Thanks Dan...

So if there’s a ring of brass at the paint damage it’s likely damage to frame or simply rust u think???


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:53 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:04 pm
Posts: 2635
Location: A wretched hive of scum and villainy...
No,not a problem if there's brass visible, just an indication of whether it was brazed or welded.

If there is any brass visible, then it's best to braze a repair, as any brass will contaminate a welded repair joint.
If there's no sign of brass, then it was probably welded, and can either be welded again, or brazed for the repair.

Should be possible to spring the joint open to inspect and clean up, then braze a repair.
Generally, a plug design is better brazed, as there's a huge contact area between the two parts.

All the best.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:59 pm 
BoTM Winner
BoTM Winner

Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 1066
Location: Hartlepool, County Durham
Thank you... you really sound like you know what you’re on about... I can solder and that’s it with metal !haha

Please subscribe to this thread and I’ll attach pics once it’s stripped to see the damage..

Cheers
Andy


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:21 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 12:00 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Yorks
It's perhaps worth remembering it's a quarter century old bike, unless you've paid hundreds and hundreds I wouldn't be too upset - unless there is considerably more noticeable movement at that joint compared with the one on the other side of the stay, when the frame is deflected (the usual foot on the bb test).

If not and nothing changes after hard use, it's just a little corrosion which has crept under the paint, some might say there'll be more harm done in stripping the whole frame rather than treating the tiny area affected. A good paint man could make a near invisible job, and with etch primer and internal corrosion protection there should be no further bother.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:54 am 
BoTM Winner
BoTM Winner

Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 1066
Location: Hartlepool, County Durham
Thanks for the replies...

Reading the Saracen catalogue these frames were powdercoated. My local PC’er who I’ve used previous suggested that if I do want to go down the full repaint route I could get an exact match in wet paint. He’d then PC base coat, wet paint then PC a lacquer over like he does modern car wheels for motor industry. That way would guarantee the best original finish.

Few options there so I think I’ll take a closer look when it finds itself being stripped and worked on....


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