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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:10 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 6:03 am
Posts: 134
Location: Singapore, formerly Luton
Over here it's mainly scooters, no pedalling at all, they can be folded and taken on public transport. So I can see the benefits, scooter gets you too and from the main transport hubs. Problem is that many have no respect for pedestrians or other road users. Supposedly capped at 22kph, many have been jail broken, I'm frequently overtaken on canal paths by guys doing >30kph, tiny wheels and no helmets. I've see video of a guy doing 70k using his phone to video it. This is madness and soon someone is going to get killed.

The pinion gearbox concept is growing me and I would like to see a standard come out of this, where pinion type gears or e motors drives could be fitted and easily swappable into a common frame mount.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:24 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:33 pm
Posts: 172
Location: Germany
In Germany e-bikes are all the rage, and they’ve nearly taken over the market. They sell well (my father in-law had a 3 month waiting for the bike he wanted), and having higher prices mean higher margins for the retailers and manufacturers, etc. Before the arrival of Shimano e-Steps a couple of years ago, Bosch had the near monopoly of the market.

For transport, I think they are a positive development, for the mentions already given. People that don’t normally cycle, or that have a commute a bit too long or hilly, or health issues, etc.

For sports/leisure, if it’s on the trails, I think they should be banned. If a path is forbidden to motor vehicles, so is an ebike, and should fall under the same category. I know what some people say “think about the elderly, or unfit, or whatever”. But I’m talking only about leisure, not covering basic needs. I’d like to go to the Everest, but my skills and fitness don’t allow it. That doesn’t mean they should build a cable car to the summit. I’ll just have to live with the fact I won’t climb Everest.

An important point will be the management and disposal of all the electronics and batteries. Currently in Germany you can buy cheap e-bikes in the hardware shops, but they are bikes that will fail in a couple of years. What to do with them? At least a “normal” bike in the bin is just metal and rubber, not Ni-Mh cells and copper cables. All manufacturers MUST face the recycling costs of their own models, even if that means increasing the price of new ebikes.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:59 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:33 am
Posts: 3345
Location: daaan saaaf
At the moment I think they're a bit of a mixed bag; they're either rather expensive when compared mopeds and small motorcycles, or they're a bit cheap and nasty. However, I think they will settle down and become better value as they become more popular and coupled with a solar panel you could even charge them for free.

I look forward to wobbling about on one in my dotage; by which time all the cars will hopefully be electric and self driving and far safer, quieter and less smelly than our current vehicles. No more maniacal motorists either driving like idiots, or crawling along at 10mph in a massive 400bhp 4x4s and filling our cities with noise and pollution and generally making the place unpleasant and unsafe for anyone not in a 2 ton steel box surrounded by air bags and cup holders.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:46 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:08 pm
Posts: 1840
Location: I know where the stash is – the secret's safe with me. The flying squad will never find us...
E-bikes: (1) another triumph of marketing (2) why not just get a motorbike, scooter or mobility scooter if too lazy to pedal? Oh and (3) don't be mixing it up on the cycle lanes with an E-bike – had enough of being cut up by these impatient loons.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:12 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:12 am
Posts: 716
Location: Anglesey
xerxes wrote:
all the cars will hopefully be electric and self driving and far safer, quieter and less smelly than our current vehicles. No more maniacal motorists either driving like idiots, or crawling along at 10mph in a massive 400bhp 4x4s and filling our cities with noise and pollution and generally making the place unpleasant and unsafe for anyone not in a 2 ton steel box surrounded by air bags and cup holders.


On the flipside, they'll still weigh 2 tons (more actually, thanks to the batteries) and be full of airbags and cup holders, they'll still be driven by idiots (use of self-driving won't be compulsory in our lifetimes), BUT... you won't hear them coming.

Back on topic, anything that encourages people onto a bicycle is a good thing. Who cares if they're not putting as much effort into pedalling as 'proper' cyclists?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:17 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 6:03 am
Posts: 134
Location: Singapore, formerly Luton
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/sin ... ie-9441768


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:06 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:08 pm
Posts: 1840
Location: I know where the stash is – the secret's safe with me. The flying squad will never find us...
The whole point of the bicycle is that it is go anywhere human self-propelled engineering simplicity.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:13 am 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:51 pm
Posts: 1455
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
groovyblueshed wrote:
E-bikes: (1) another triumph of marketing (2) why not just get a motorbike, scooter or mobility scooter if too lazy to pedal? Oh and (3) don't be mixing it up on the cycle lanes with an E-bike – had enough of being cut up by these impatient loons.

:D


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:24 am 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:33 pm
Posts: 8373
Location: new forest
Titiritero wrote:
and having higher prices mean higher margins for the retailers and manufacturers, etc.


this is incorrect, higher prices does not translate to higher margins (unfortunately!) in fact it's usually the opposite. Marin bikes for example, the full suspension mark up is less than that of a hardtail, as a shop you are better off selling 2 hardtails at £1000 rather than one full suspension at £2000, it's the same with E bikes, there is so much technology there that margins are actually tighter for both the manufacturer and the importer and the retailer.

the reason the margin is tighter is because the price has to be relatively sensible at retail otherwise it wouldn't sell so the margin is reduced so it is more acceptable at retail price to the consumer.

margin wise the bikes to sell generally are the £300 to £900 range as the percentage is better per bike, and if you can sell a lot the importer might give you a better mark up the following year, it also helps if you buy sensibly, sometimes it's better for the dealer to buy older models from the importer as they become last years model then they can sell them at a reduced price to the customer and usually still make the same or sometimes better margin than normal if they really bought at a good price, this often means 50 bikes plus in one hit.

the brands that shops make the most on, Giant, Specialized, Cube, and the the really cheapo stuff, all the other brands have worse margins than those mentioned, Orange are bearly worth selling unless you really go hard selling the custom options such as paint and upgrades etc, and that's assuming you don't have to throw in the upgrade for free to get the customer to buy it. then they ask for finance, that's another 9% to 11% gone which means on a £3000 Orange you might make £550 margin (which is not profit, profit and margin are two very different things!) if you're lucky the profit is £210 on £3000.

glad i don't sell bikes! i just fix them! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:56 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:21 am
Posts: 844
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
legrandefromage wrote:
I feel its more dick swinging I'm afraid.

The whole point of exercise is that its exercise.

An e-bike is a motorised vehicle and sparks up questions about insurance and liabilities in case of accidents.

I can see the benefits for those that need it but I bet that would rarely happen out in the real world. Affordability and all that.


Having had the odd minor stoush with you on here over the years, I'd have to say I'm pleased to agree 100%, word for word with this and the subsequent post about being third class citizens behind motorised vehicles.

In Australia if they meet the 200-300w limit we have, they're mostly useless. If they're much more powerful than that they're basically mopeds, they're illegal, and they are the burgeoning sector of the market.

Where I live is quite mountainous so they're almost completely restricted to the flatlands because they just don't have the guts to climb the hills, which, in practice, means an increasing number of them wobbling about the cycleway. Some duffer on one merely looked at me in horror last week as he drifted into my oncoming lane, as though he were powerless to steer back to his side...

In terms of E-MTBs I think the repeated assertions that they get the infirm, the unfit, the disabled etc into cycling is absolute tosh. Mostly they're a toy for the lazy rich and techno dorks.


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