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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:58 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 27749
Location: Moomin Valley
English threads and BSA are one and the same - its what the world adopted. Square tapers were the same width with just deeper or shallower taper, usable but not advisable. Threadless was available for 1 inch and 1 1/8 with just a change of the top of the headset to 'convert' - 68/73 was all interchangeable with cup & cone, frame adaptors for BMX BB's, spacers for 1 1/4 head tubes to bring it back to a usable size, press fit bearings were available from other industries so it could all be easily sorted and still can with whats available around you.

The tapered steerer was for carbon, it was needed for carbon - it can not be seen in the same way as aluminium or steel.

You also have to remember that in order to make money you have to have a dominant product or standard that you can sell or license to others, once you have that you are King. Until someone else brings something else out.

The retrobike thing is very green and environmental and certain things work for a reason. Cycling as a business isnt quite so green and is there to make its shareholders money. They cant make money out of old bicycles, they have to sell you new, they make everything a competition, everything has to give you an edge over the guy next to you. You need to be insecure about what you have because will it be good enough?

People often ask why the 1997 cut-off with Retrobike. Its been pointed out by many as the point where the accountants stepped in. They said 'you need to make money', thats when the 'golden era' possibly ended but I dont subscribe to that. I think its when we as individuals stop chasing that edge - that could be today or tomorrow, or in my case, 2006 when the then 'new' bike I bought was compared directly to a much older one and it failed miserably out on the trails. The old bike stayed and the new bike went on to some other, someone still looking for that edge.

So dont see retrobikes as obsolete, they dont require 'technology' to reduce their emissions or airbags or safety systems. They are very recyclable and can be made to be re-used for decades upon decades. Every journey they make is a plus point for personal health and the environment


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:21 am 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:03 am
Posts: 18705
Location: Sunny Glasgow
legrandefromage wrote:
Just look at the madness bottom brackets

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-he ... -section-7


Pretty much sums it up

Threaded and the only possible problem is sorted by tightening it in. All the others just list problems and things to be aware of that can cause problems.

Admittedly threaded missed out whether you should grease your spindles or not, but hey-ho, the gist of it is there :P


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:48 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:33 am
Posts: 3195
Location: Riding my Woodsie.
clubby wrote:
Eventually the only thing surviving will be old Z1 Bombers.


Try and get seals and bushes for these though. Not easy, so maybe one day they will all be junk too. :(

If anyone does know where to get bushes let me know. I'm ok for seals just now. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:58 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:13 pm
Posts: 10151
Location: Skipton
Meh, bit rose tinted IMO.

BITD we had hundreds of different standards. How many different square taper axle lengths were there, or seat post size? Three different head tube sizes, different canti mounts for different brakes, change in standard for rear wheel axel etc, etc, etc.... They even tried to introduce 29ers in the early 90's!!

It's always gone on and always will. In much the same way as we keep our retro bikes running you will be able to do the same for forks, shocks, wheels etc but to be honest if you're running 2005/6 forks and they go pop you could pick up a pair of 5 year newer ones for little more than a service kit, same with shocks, same with wheels. Buy some wheels with Hope Pro 2 hubs and you can get adapters for virtually any type or size of axle. You can run 650b frames and forks with 26" wheels and you can use 650b forks in 26" frames.

QR was replaced with a better system and I have no problems with that.
Tapered steerers I'll give you, a money making trick that stuffed most people with 1 1/8th frames overnight. Saying that, you can still get decent quality 26", 1 1/8th, QR forks brand new, just not in the most swanky pants cutting edge designs although I'd suggest the vast majority of people willing to drop £800 to £1500 on a pair of forks have also changed bikes quite a few times since 2012.
Press fit BB's? already been and gone with most manufacturers reverting to threaded. I'd hazard a guess that it's far easier to go in to a shop today and replace your BB than it was in 1993. Nearly every bike has 68mm or 73mm BB and any Hollowtech style crankset will work with either.

Things change, just as they always have and always will. Sling your leg over a properly modern mountain bike, they're ace!


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:22 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 27749
Location: Moomin Valley
BTW, what was so special about 1993?

Modern' bikes are just a collection of decades old ideas jiggled and wiggled every 8 months or so to give you that fresh new bike smell.

A bit like iPhones.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:41 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
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Location: Moomin Valley
brocklanders023 wrote:
Meh, bit rose tinted IMO.

BITD we had hundreds of different standards. How many different square taper axle lengths were there, or seat post size? Three different head tube sizes, different canti mounts for different brakes, change in standard for rear wheel axel etc, etc, etc.... They even tried to introduce 29ers in the early 90's!!

It's always gone on and always will. In much the same way as we keep our retro bikes running you will be able to do the same for forks, shocks, wheels etc but to be honest if you're running 2005/6 forks and they go pop you could pick up a pair of 5 year newer ones for little more than a service kit, same with shocks, same with wheels. Buy some wheels with Hope Pro 2 hubs and you can get adapters for virtually any type or size of axle. You can run 650b frames and forks with 26" wheels and you can use 650b forks in 26" frames.

QR was replaced with a better system and I have no problems with that.
Tapered steerers I'll give you, a money making trick that stuffed most people with 1 1/8th frames overnight. Saying that, you can still get decent quality 26", 1 1/8th, QR forks brand new, just not in the most swanky pants cutting edge designs although I'd suggest the vast majority of people willing to drop £800 to £1500 on a pair of forks have also changed bikes quite a few times since 2012.
Press fit BB's? already been and gone with most manufacturers reverting to threaded. I'd hazard a guess that it's far easier to go in to a shop today and replace your BB than it was in 1993. Nearly every bike has 68mm or 73mm BB and any Hollowtech style crankset will work with either.

Things change, just as they always have and always will. Sling your leg over a properly modern mountain bike, they're ace!


I just cant let that stand - sod rose tinted, your reply is very myopic and narrow minded!

The cycle industry needs to make money! How many more times! Look at all the brands from the early 1990's that were swallowed up by 1998 and many times since - all the big fish swallowing up the little fishies.

A good article on current BB 'standards' http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/c ... ets-36660/

Today road bikes have disc brakes, in gods name why? Because you can only invent the dual pivot caliper just the once, its nearly 30 years old and has barely changed.

The Hope wheel is a bad analogy, Hope are small, if they dont adapt, they die. Whats the point of ploughing on with a perfectly acceptable design if you cant MAKE MONEY!

Agggghh! Money! Bicycles! Its a terrible mix!

Look at all that terribly reliable old crap out there, how are you supposed to make MONEY from that if it works and is disgustingly long lived. Awful business model.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:52 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 27749
Location: Moomin Valley
Stuff that just cant be re-invented no matter what:

The wheel, sure they can make it different sizes but it will always be round

Indexed shifting, that little click to tell you that you've shifted gear be it gearbox , chain or belt or ones own sense of smugness

Ramped cassettes, nearly 30 years old and still cant be bettered


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:07 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 27749
Location: Moomin Valley
No go away! I'm off to ride my press fit BB, 1 1/4 headtubed, 650D wheeled Mavic Zap magnesium framed bicycle!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:36 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:57 pm
Posts: 4183
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
shogun wrote:
BBs...well, let's not forget there were a few competing standards in the golden retro era. Square JIS, square ISO, BSA thread, English thread, 68, 73 widths, a number of brands with bespoke BBs, and then the pressfit ones. Headsets we had 1-1/8", 1-1/4" threaded and threadless all in use plus a couple of crown race and headset cup variations in 1". Bespoke hub standards in various bikes right through the late 80s into the 2000s.


There's the need to force people onto new platforms, but I suspect there's also a lot of the following :

Attachment:
standards.png
standards.png [ 25.99 KiB | Viewed 187 times ]


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:58 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:23 pm
Posts: 782
Location: Surrey Hills
There's absolutely tons of 26" wheels on QR, forks with 1 1/8 straight steerers etc on eBay - and staggeringly cheap because everyone else is riding 29ers or 650b.

Hoover up the bargains 8)


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